Author Topic: Episode #692  (Read 2925 times)

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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2018, 08:45:17 PM »
I believe it was Steve who said he'd like to own the first living thing, or maybe he said a fossil of it. The problem is that when you get very close to the line between living and not living, we don't have really good definitions. It seems likely to me that there was not an easily definable demarcation between the first living thing and its immediate predecessor.

Cara definitely won, though.

She definitely won, though I do think they overstated the value of the Library of Alexandria and where human progress would be if it had survived. "Appeal to Antiquity Fallacy"  ;)

The Library might have been the greatest library of the time and hold hundreds of thousands of works, but there were libraries elsewhere and copies of most of the works.

I wondered about that too.  I think the claim that we’d have instellar space travel by now if the library hadn’t destroyed over the top.  It’s not likely that the science lost was all that critical.

I don’t know who said it, but the wish for the first atoms produced after the Big Bang didn’t seem to be particularly ambitious.  Any lithium battery contains remnants of the Big Bang.  Only the first three elements were produced in the Big Bang, and there are natural ways of producing hydrogen and helium (helium from nuclear fusion of hydrogen and alpha-decay of radioactive elements).  I’m given to understand that lithium isn’t produced in nuclear fusion, and I’m not aware of any sort of nuclear decay that would produce lithium (I might be wrong, so I’ve expressed myself carefully in case someone more knowledgeable corrects me).
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Online The Latinist

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2018, 09:01:35 PM »
See, I thought the others on the panel were not really answering the question Jay posed. His question was what object of historical scientific significance they would most like to have in their private collection, not what currently unavailable scientific evidence they would most like to obtain.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Partanimal

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 01:27:49 AM »
Please tell me what the word is that Jay used to qualify the teacher with the meteorite! It sounded a whole lot like shemale, and I have listened to that segment a dozen times and can't get it to sound like anything else. I'm going atypical. Please help.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 01:48:19 AM »
Do you remember / know the timestamp? I didn't catch what you heard.
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Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2018, 02:07:12 AM »
some positive action on the WHO including Chinese medicine might be helpful.

How about actually naming the Chinese former leader of the WHO, Margaret Chan Fung Fu-chun so people can reach out on her directly or encourage others to do so, spread some skeptical activism.  Try thinking of Chinese people as actual individuals rather than some kind of hegemony and some of them might turn out to be allies.  You know. instead of just saying "the leader of the WHO who was Chinese"

Maybe reaching out to Chinese skeptics to try and grow the skeptical movement in China, or reach out to Chinese communities in the USA and other countries and encourage ethnic Chinese skeptics to speak out to their Chinese and non-Chinese acquaintances, and show the world that there are only two types of medicine, scientific medicine and non-scientific medicine and it's not offensive to say this stuff doesn't work.  Culture and ethnicity doesn't determine what works we are all human.  You know, instead of just blurting out "These are the guys who eat shark's fin soup!"
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 02:13:50 AM by God Bomb »
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2018, 02:37:15 AM »
Do you remember / know the timestamp? I didn't catch what you heard.

It is at the very start of the podcast. Just past the 1 minute mark. It sounds like she-male, but I think it was just Jay slurring the word 'female'.

He had the story wrong anyway, it was the science teacher (geologist Professor Mona Sirbescu) who recognised it as being a meteorite

Offline mabell_yah

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2018, 03:27:13 AM »
My first scientific artifact impulse was Da Vinci's notebook. Then I quickly moved on to the library at Alexandria. Nice to be in sync with Cara. I'd also like something cool with gears. Maybe a complete working Antikythera mechanism (NIB with manual).

Was it Evan who wanted a skull made of the first atoms in the universe? Enjoy your skull-shaped jar of hydrogen.

Offline Partanimal

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2018, 06:31:47 AM »
Do you remember / know the timestamp? I didn't catch what you heard.

Right at 1:04.

Offline Jester700

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2018, 01:51:36 PM »
I believe it was Steve who said he'd like to own the first living thing, or maybe he said a fossil of it. The problem is that when you get very close to the line between living and not living, we don't have really good definitions. It seems likely to me that there was not an easily definable demarcation between the first living thing and its immediate predecessor.

Cara definitely won, though.

She definitely won, though I do think they overstated the value of the Library of Alexandria and where human progress would be if it had survived. "Appeal to Antiquity Fallacy"  ;)

The Library might have been the greatest library of the time and hold hundreds of thousands of works, but there were libraries elsewhere and copies of most of the works.

I wondered about that too.  I think the claim that we’d have instellar space travel by now if the library hadn’t destroyed over the top.  It’s not likely that the science lost was all that critical.

Tim O'eill addresses this in his "History for Atheists" series on great myths. Basically, he claims that the library wasn't destroyed when many think it was, for the reasons we think it was, and didn't contain as much material or as much science as is often thought. Nor was it the only repository of knowledge.
https://historyforatheists.com/2017/07/the-destruction-of-the-great-library-of-alexandria/

Still a huge loss, and I agree that Cara still wins.

Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2018, 01:58:00 PM »
I think Steve got the thing about naturalized citizens voting wrong.

He said we require naturalized citizens to pass a test before voting.

We require applicants for citizenship to pass a test to become citizens. Once they are citizens, they are free to vote.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2018, 03:06:29 PM »
I think Steve got the thing about naturalized citizens voting wrong.

He said we require naturalized citizens to pass a test before voting.

We require applicants for citizenship to pass a test to become citizens. Once they are citizens, they are free to vote.

I think the above is correct. It's worth noting, also, that voting rights are governed by states, and some states actively target immigrants for harassment intended to discourage them from voting. But that's not the same as a civics test as a separate requirement.
Daniel
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2018, 04:31:20 PM »
I think what he was implying is that since naturalized citizens must take the citizenship test, there is a higher requirement for knowledge of the government for them. 

Passing tests as a requirement for voting has obvious constitutional problems, and I sincerely doubt Dr Novella thought that.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2018, 04:55:28 PM »
I think what he was implying is that since naturalized citizens must take the citizenship test, there is a higher requirement for knowledge of the government for them. 

Passing tests as a requirement for voting has obvious constitutional problems, and I sincerely doubt Dr Novella thought that.

Did you listen to the podcast? I'll listen to that part again.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2018, 08:37:03 PM »
The point is that people who are naturalized have taken a test, and people who were born citizens have not.   Therefore there is a higher knowledge requirement for people who are naturalized.

If he said "Naturalized citizens must take a test before they are eligible to vote," or something to that effect then technically it's wrong, because they already took the test.  Some tenses mixed up when speaking in an unscripted way is more likely than Steve believing naturalized citizens need to take a test after they already have citizenship in my opinion and I interpreted it that way.
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2018, 09:19:24 PM »
About 11 minutes in:

Quote
If you are a naturalized citizen you have to pass a test to vote. We don't let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. We say you have to pass a civics test. You have to show you're knowledgeable about the United States... So they're saying ...we [should] give the same test to all citizens that we currently give to naturalized citizens.

I think it's pretty clear he's mistaken. We do let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. They must pass a civics test in order to become a citizen.

Steve was strongly disagreeing with the suggestion for civics tests for voting  (and rightly so) but somewhere along the way there was a disconnect.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

 

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