Author Topic: Episode #692  (Read 4053 times)

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Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2018, 09:52:45 PM »
About 11 minutes in:

Quote
If you are a naturalized citizen you have to pass a test to vote. We don't let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. We say you have to pass a civics test. You have to show you're knowledgeable about the United States... So they're saying ...we [should] give the same test to all citizens that we currently give to naturalized citizens.

I think it's pretty clear he's mistaken. We do let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. They must pass a civics test in order to become a citizen.

Steve was strongly disagreeing with the suggestion for civics tests for voting  (and rightly so) but somewhere along the way there was a disconnect.

if that's what he said then yeah, you're right.
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2018, 11:15:55 AM »
About 11 minutes in:

Quote
If you are a naturalized citizen you have to pass a test to vote. We don't let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. We say you have to pass a civics test. You have to show you're knowledgeable about the United States... So they're saying ...we [should] give the same test to all citizens that we currently give to naturalized citizens.

I think it's pretty clear he's mistaken. We do let everyone who becomes a citizen vote. They must pass a civics test in order to become a citizen.

Steve was strongly disagreeing with the suggestion for civics tests for voting  (and rightly so) but somewhere along the way there was a disconnect.

if that's what he said then yeah, you're right.

Yep, I listened to it again, that's exactly what he said.  I still doubt that he meant it the way it came out, but I have to accept the actual language.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2018, 03:18:30 PM »
Maybe reaching out to Chinese skeptics to try and grow the skeptical movement in China, or reach out to Chinese communities in the USA and other countries and encourage ethnic Chinese skeptics to speak out to their Chinese and non-Chinese acquaintances, and show the world that there are only two types of medicine, scientific medicine and non-scientific medicine and it's not offensive to say this stuff doesn't work.  Culture and ethnicity doesn't determine what works we are all human.  You know, instead of just blurting out "These are the guys who eat shark's fin soup!"

Is that ethical? I mean, being a skeptic can get you killed in China. Besides, try to imagine the misery of being a skeptic in China where basically everything skeptical is filtered out. The other problem is that this kind of information is class-based. It is normal for STEM University students to use VPNs and read "Western" sources. But the average citizen is not allowed to read about (let alone publicly protest) the treatment of Uyghurs for example; I believe it is also illegal to contradict the State/Party historical revisionism on topics such as the Tiananmen Square protests.

I don't buy the argument that a culture's active disregard for human rights (or even animal rights) can or should be defended under the principle of cultural sensitivity.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 03:21:39 PM by stands2reason »

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2018, 08:29:32 PM »
Is soldering really a subtype of welding? I've always heard (and a 10 second google search seems to confirm) that welding specifically refers to melting the pieces of metal to be joined, while soldering and brazing involve melting an intermediary metal between the pieces to be joined. Therefore, it's impossible that anything was welded with solder 3,000 years ago.

Semantics win again!

I was caught up on this as well. As far as I know (and I'm not an expert), soldering is literally gluing two separate pieces of metal together, whereas welding is combining the two pieces with heat so that they become one. A soldered joint still has a seam. Welding eliminates the seam. They're not the same thing at all.

Also, on the pronunciation. I found it amusing that they made specific effort to acknowledge the aluminum/aluminium difference, but completely missed the sodder/solder thing.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2018, 08:45:03 PM »
I was caught up on this as well. As far as I know (and I'm not an expert), soldering is literally gluing two separate pieces of metal together, whereas welding is combining the two pieces with heat so that they become one. A soldered joint still has a seam. Welding eliminates the seam. They're not the same thing at all.

Also, on the pronunciation. I found it amusing that they made specific effort to acknowledge the aluminum/aluminium difference, but completely missed the sodder/solder thing.

Electric arc welding definitely melts the electrode, and that is the binding metal, but it is grounded to one of the pieces of metal being welded, so it might also melt that metal when the electric arc goes into it. And they do produce seams.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2018, 08:49:14 PM »
Also, on the pronunciation. I found it amusing that they made specific effort to acknowledge the aluminum/aluminium difference, but completely missed the sodder/solder thing.

What a sodding mess.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 11:01:57 PM »
I was caught up on this as well. As far as I know (and I'm not an expert), soldering is literally gluing two separate pieces of metal together, whereas welding is combining the two pieces with heat so that they become one. A soldered joint still has a seam. Welding eliminates the seam. They're not the same thing at all.

Also, on the pronunciation. I found it amusing that they made specific effort to acknowledge the aluminum/aluminium difference, but completely missed the sodder/solder thing.

Electric arc welding definitely melts the electrode, and that is the binding metal, but it is grounded to one of the pieces of metal being welded, so it might also melt that metal when the electric arc goes into it. And they do produce seams.

No, the rod is filler material, but the joint is made by melting the base materials together.  A successful arc weld forms a pool of melted metal at the joint that mixes materials from both base metals and the rod. Most (all?) welding is done with some sort of filler material, but the essential characteristic is that it melts the materials being welded. That’s the differentiating factor between welding and soldering.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 11:09:38 PM »
As far as I know (and I'm not an expert), soldering is literally gluing two separate pieces of metal together, whereas welding is combining the two pieces with heat so that they become one.

I’m pretty sure that glue is by definition non-metallic, so that soldering might be figuratively referred to as gluing, but is not literally so.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online brilligtove

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2018, 01:04:47 AM »
...huh. That never occurred to me as a possible difference. Some reading for the rest of the week.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 03:18:09 AM »
There are also differences between MIG welding and TIG welding, but they are differences in method, not substantially in result.

Also, I will note that pressure welding, aka forge welding, is a very effective method, and very much counts as welding.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 03:19:22 AM »
As far as I know (and I'm not an expert), soldering is literally gluing two separate pieces of metal together, whereas welding is combining the two pieces with heat so that they become one.

I’m pretty sure that glue is by definition non-metallic, so that soldering might be figuratively referred to as gluing, but is not literally so.

Yes, figuratively. Thanks for the clarification. Piece 1 sticks to the solder, which sticks to Piece 2. The pieces are adhered to each other, not actually welded together.

I imagine that there'll be some mention of this in the next episode, because I can't imagine that they won't get a bunch of emails about it.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 04:09:19 AM »
So, Chaos Theory, anyone?

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 10:40:17 AM »
Maybe reaching out to Chinese skeptics to try and grow the skeptical movement in China, or reach out to Chinese communities in the USA and other countries and encourage ethnic Chinese skeptics to speak out to their Chinese and non-Chinese acquaintances, and show the world that there are only two types of medicine, scientific medicine and non-scientific medicine and it's not offensive to say this stuff doesn't work.  Culture and ethnicity doesn't determine what works we are all human.  You know, instead of just blurting out "These are the guys who eat shark's fin soup!"

Is that ethical? I mean, being a skeptic can get you killed in China. Besides, try to imagine the misery of being a skeptic in China where basically everything skeptical is filtered out. The other problem is that this kind of information is class-based. It is normal for STEM University students to use VPNs and read "Western" sources. But the average citizen is not allowed to read about (let alone publicly protest) the treatment of Uyghurs for example; I believe it is also illegal to contradict the State/Party historical revisionism on topics such as the Tiananmen Square protests.

I don't buy the argument that a culture's active disregard for human rights (or even animal rights) can or should be defended under the principle of cultural sensitivity.

Being skeptical in China can get you killed?  Do you have any examples of this happening? 
Is there any evidence that speaking up against chinese medicine is a dangerous practice in China?  China suppresses a lot of information, but usually it's political, if anything the country has a history of suppressing religious and political information, that is what they fear from the west.  Not science.  The Uyghurs don't have much to do with science, that's a human rights issue.  I don't think promoting scientific information would be dangerous, but I could be wrong.  Not sure who your last sentence is directed at.
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »
Does anyone else on the thread actually weld?
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #692
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 02:39:56 PM »
I solder a lot!


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