Poll

Are you an antitheist?

Yes, strongly so.
9 (30%)
Yes, mildly so.
8 (26.7%)
No, mildly not.
3 (10%)
No, strongly not.
5 (16.7%)
Other.
5 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Author Topic: Are you an antitheist?  (Read 3276 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4440
Are you an antitheist?
« on: October 13, 2018, 07:26:15 AM »
"...I am not so much an atheist as an anti-theist. I am, in other words, not one of those unbelievers who wishes that they had faith, or that they could believe. I am, rather, someone who is delighted that there is absolutely no persuasive evidence for the existence of any of mankind's many thousands of past and present deities." - Christopher Hitchens

The Skeptic's Dictionary has an entry on it that is worth reading in this context.

Offline Mr. Beagle

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4496
    • When God Plays DIce
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 08:14:57 AM »
Human language evolved in most cultures with a deeply embedded "God language" that permeates the literary and social history of the society. Even if you don't "believe" in a "God" you are intentionally illiterate in that culture if you don't know that part of "the language."

My skeptical brain has concluded that, if indeed "God" does not exist, then what people using "God language" are really saying is, "I really, really hope" " or "I really, really wish" or "I really, really fear." As a skeptic, that is the part of their "God language" that I try to hear.

As a result, I can have really good conversations with many "God believers" about common topics, although not usually with fundamentalists. Hitchens, in my reading, equated religious believers of all stripes with either fundamentalists or their enablers, which I think is a very narrow view.
Mister Beagle
The real world is tri-color
now blogging at http://godplaysdice.com

Offline daniel1948

  • Hasn't
  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7896
  • Cat Lovers Against the Bomb
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 02:18:26 PM »
I am an anti-theist, though I define the term differently than you do: I am opposed to religion, which I regard as destructive and incompatible with common sense and decency. I know that most mainstream believers are not bad people and do not intentionally use their religion to harm others. But the teaching of religion to children diminishes their ability to think critically, and religion creates walls between people in a world where what we need are unifying influences rather than dividing influences.

Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Online Awatsjr

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 07:10:30 PM »
Hmm, his definitions. I've always seen "atheist" as a-theist - without god. I act and live without one and assume there isn't one until proven otherwise. Anti-theist would mean "against god" or maybe against theists, I don't do anything against a god anymore than I do against Bigfoot.

By his meanings, yes I guess I would be anti-theist but I don't accept his definition. It's active rather than passive.

Offline haudace

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Reality under scrutiny
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 08:37:01 PM »
I am an atheist - but I also accept people can think differently about the world. If people leave me alone, I'll treat them the same.

I will only be antitheist when my hand is forced especially in cases where legislation is influenced by religious beliefs. Or someone is pressuring me to regularly attend Sunday mass. Other than that, I could care less.

Online Desert Fox

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 18492
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 10:57:32 PM »
I do thnk that religion does real measurable harm. I also think that almost everyone would be just as good without religion.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Online Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4084
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 05:56:44 AM »
To be exact I'm antitheism.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline bachfiend

  • Not Any Kind of Moderator
  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1429
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 05:49:51 PM »
I’m a strong atheist.  I think the probability of there being god(s) is so close to 0% it’s not worth considering.  I’m not an anti-theist.  I’ve attended church services, for the cultural experience, including a Sunday mass in the Cologne cathedral, a Lutheran service in the Leipzig Thomaskirche (Bach’s old church) and a mass in the Ypres cathedral in Belgium (I only understood about 10% of what the priest was saying, but it sounded good) just this year on a visit to Europe.
Gebt ihr ihr ihr Buch zurück?

Offline John Albert

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5406
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 07:32:33 PM »
I'm not a positive atheist, ie. I don't take the "hard" or "strong" position of positively denying gods and the supernatural. While I don't believe they exist, I also don't claim certainty that they don't. 

At the same time, I'm definitely anti-religion. I do find humor in the contradictions of The Bible and other religious absurdities in a similar way that one might find humor in silly UFO stories and bigfoot hoaxes. On a serious note, I also believe that the concept of gods and the influence of most religions is not only unreasonable, but harmful to human society. Religion promises unity and brotherly love, but I see it more often driving us apart more than uniting us. Like nationalism, I do believe that religion ultimately causes more harm than good.

But above all, I try to get along on a personal level. I try to avoid disparaging anybody's religion straight to their face unless they've come to me with the intention of converting me or disparaging me for my atheism. If I go to a wedding or funeral, I try my best to adhere to the protocols. I'll dutifully stand and keel when expected, make the requisite hand signals, put on the yarmulke, and say "Amen" at the proper cues.

Does that make me an anti-theist?

« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 02:46:22 PM by John Albert »

Online 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2239
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 07:18:25 AM »
I do thnk that religion does real measurable harm. I also think that almost everyone would be just as good without religion.

In particular because religion creates problems for it to solve. You're not a good person, you're a sinner, everyone's a sinner, and only zombie Jesus can stopgap that. Can't fix it, because that would mean you didn't need the religion always.

Or it tells you that you don't deserve to have your problems fixed, because of reincarnation and what you did before you were born.

Religion gives people a way of not accepting responsibility for problems, "the devil made me do it" or class differences being the result of how we run society. Or argues for not having to solve problems, because they'll be solved by some divine power eventually, the afterlife and Armageddon. Or that they can't be, because of the sin thing. Or that they shouldn't be, because God will supernaturally cause disasters if you offend the personal sentiments of certain individuals that they have no way of arguing for without God.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 07:35:42 AM by 2397 »

Offline mindme

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8657
    • http://www.yrad.com/cs
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 08:35:28 AM »
I'm against theists who want me to obey their theism at the point of a gun.
"Because the world needs more Mark Crislip."

Conspiracy Skeptic Podcast
Korean Podcast
Michael Goudeau, Vegas Comedy Entertainer Available for Trade Shows

Online Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4084
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 08:46:04 AM »
I'm against theists who want me to obey their theism at the point of a gun.
It's worse when it's at the point of a law favoring their personal imaginary friend.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Mr. Beagle

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4496
    • When God Plays DIce
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 08:49:55 AM »
I still find it interesting that avowed atheists believe so much in the "power of God" to direct people's lives. If God does not exist, then religion is just another a mind-capturing ideology with its own characteristic "God language."

So the problem is then not religion, but mind-capturing ideologies and don't conform with a rational, materialism-based ideologies. And even these can cause mass harm if followed to extreme.

Many people are able to communicate in "God language" without being captured by most of the harmful attributes that sometimes attach. This includes many scientists, and included Einstein, who, to the frustration of some of his friends, used a lot of "God language" to communicate both his physics to lay audiences, as well as his musical obsessions.

I make an analogy to drugs here, because of their mind-capturing capabilities. Some of my favorite music was made by Chet Baker and other jazz musicians while captured on heroin and other drugs, resulting in many deaths, including Baker's. Similarly, we have great architecture and classic writing by people "mind-captured" by religion.
Mister Beagle
The real world is tri-color
now blogging at http://godplaysdice.com

Online Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4084
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 09:33:29 AM »
I still find it interesting that avowed atheists believe so much in the "power of God" to direct people's lives.
Eh?
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Online Desert Fox

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 18492
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Are you an antitheist?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 09:48:41 AM »
The problem is that I think that most "mind-capturing ideologies" are religions, and even more, the most dangerous ones.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

 

personate-rain
personate-rain