Author Topic: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?  (Read 980 times)

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Online Desert Fox

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I was recently listening to an old episode of "The Dollop" about Thomas Kinkade

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/77-thomas-kinkade

Basically he was an article that claimed to be born again - At the same time he seem to have drank, assaulted women, bilked people out of money, and was a generally a nasty person.

We see this out of so many leaders and powerful among the born again crowd. Many of the politicians will have affairs and then have their girlfriends get abortions on the side. Anti-gay ministers often are found having gay sex. Of course likely the worst and most common is how ministers effectively rob their parishioners.

One of the issues I have is just their followers essentially just accept this. Is there some way to deconstruct this mind set?

"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 02:54:37 PM »
You're only noticing the hits. You don't see the headlines about the pastors and "born-agains" who don't do that stuff because it's not headline worthy. You don't hear about the anti-gay activists who never get caught have sex with a member of the same sex because "man still doesn't do anything newsworthy" isn't newsworthy.
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Online Desert Fox

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 03:07:34 PM »
You're only noticing the hits. You don't see the headlines about the pastors and "born-agains" who don't do that stuff because it's not headline worthy. You don't hear about the anti-gay activists who never get caught have sex with a member of the same sex because "man still doesn't do anything newsworthy" isn't newsworthy.

It still is a large number and the amount that bilk their parishioners is far higher than that.
I don't  think there is a high profile minister who is not bilking his followers.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline John Albert

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 03:09:48 PM »
I don't think there's a religion that isn't bilking its followers.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 03:10:48 PM »
You're only noticing the hits. You don't see the headlines about the pastors and "born-agains" who don't do that stuff because it's not headline worthy. You don't hear about the anti-gay activists who never get caught have sex with a member of the same sex because "man still doesn't do anything newsworthy" isn't newsworthy.

It still is a large number and the amount that bilk their parishioners is far higher than that.
I don't  think there is a high profile minister who is not bilking his followers.

Is it a large number?
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 03:11:43 PM »
I don't think there's a religion that isn't bilking its followers.

Not even the Jedi Church?

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 03:29:09 PM »
Religion is by definition the art of selling something that does not exist, so every minister, priest, rabbi, mullah, and lama is bilking his or her followers.

And since ministers, priests, rabbis, mullahs, and lamas are people, some of them are rapists and/or pedophiles and you will find all genders and sexual orientations among them. I would argue that the vast majority are hypocrites because it's hard not to be when you're preaching a lifestyle you're not living by, and selling something that does not exist. You are not going to be able to run a successful ministry if you're so detached from reality that you actually believe that God has delegated you to sell tickets to heaven.
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 04:00:25 PM »
I don't think there's a religion that isn't bilking its followers.

Not even the Jedi Church?

Isn't that just a Star Wars fan club?

Online The Latinist

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 06:11:49 PM »
While I admit that the hypocrisy of the religious stands out, I’m not sure that the religious are really more hypocritical than anyone else. Our observations of the phenomenon are, after all, essentially anecdotal. I’d like to see some actual evidence of the phenomenon.

As for the tolerance of followers for such hypocrisy, Christianity teaches that all people are sinners by nature and that literally any sin can be forgiven to the repentant.  One could even say that’s the primary teaching of the religion, and that forgiveness of God is something Christians are expressly taught to emulate. Seems a natural result to me.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 06:15:00 PM by The Latinist »
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Online Desert Fox

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 06:28:35 PM »
Another good example is that one of the major leaders of one of the Baptist (I think) Seminaries was caught in inappropriate sexual relations. The seminary terminated him but he found a job teaching morality in another university?

I believe it was on the friendly atheist but will check later if you want?
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 06:45:55 PM »
Michael Shermer still has a job at skeptic magazine, and skeptic's don't have the excuse of ultimate redemption. I don't think it's more strange that religious institutions that preach forgiveness (especially for men) are willing to offer people a 53rd chance than anyone else. At least whatever seminary that was fired the guy. Skeptic still hasn't done that.
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2018, 03:11:38 PM »
Another good example is that one of the major leaders of one of the Baptist (I think) Seminaries was caught in inappropriate sexual relations. The seminary terminated him but he found a job teaching morality in another university?

I believe it was on the friendly atheist but will check later if you want?

Inappropriate to Baptists?  I mean, if it was consensual and not pedo, then his sexual relations were probably just fine.  His only crime then would be the hypocrisy of saying what he was doing was immoral, which is pretty common for most human beings.  I don't really find this noteworthy.  It would be like someone using a private jet to fly around the country giving speeches about the dangers of climate change.
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gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Online The Latinist

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2018, 03:19:45 PM »
I've said this before, but I don't get why some people are so hung up on hypocrisy. It seems to me perfectly natural that people are not always able to live up to the beliefs and ideals they hold and profess.  Indeed, failure to live up to one's ideals in everything seems to me to be the rule rather the exception, and an inescapable consequence of having them.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 04:54:06 PM »
I've said this before, but I don't get why some people are so hung up on hypocrisy. It seems to me perfectly natural that people are not always able to live up to the beliefs and ideals they hold and profess.  Indeed, failure to live up to one's ideals in everything seems to me to be the rule rather the exception, and an inescapable consequence of having them.

Something I've said before too.  No matter your political or religious colours, everyone considers hypocrisy by the other side to be an instant GOTCHA that should immediately bring everyone over to their own side, and simultaneously justifies or ignores any hypocrisy from their own side as irrelevant.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 06:04:07 PM »
I've said this before, but I don't get why some people are so hung up on hypocrisy. It seems to me perfectly natural that people are not always able to live up to the beliefs and ideals they hold and profess.  Indeed, failure to live up to one's ideals in everything seems to me to be the rule rather the exception, and an inescapable consequence of having them.

What I find reprehensible is when someone in a position of authority demands that others be punished or shunned or denied basic rights, for behaviors he himself is engaging in. It's fine for a person who eats fish to say eating fish is wrong. It's not fine when a person who eats fish demands that the people of a certain village be excluded from the public library because they eat fish.
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