Author Topic: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?  (Read 1344 times)

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 08:50:53 PM »
I've said this before, but I don't get why some people are so hung up on hypocrisy. It seems to me perfectly natural that people are not always able to live up to the beliefs and ideals they hold and profess.  Indeed, failure to live up to one's ideals in everything seems to me to be the rule rather the exception, and an inescapable consequence of having them.

I don't think it's an instant disqualifier, but for me there is definitely times when hypocrisy is an indictment of the professed belief. I wouldn't expect an environmentalist to go completely off-grid, but when someone tells me that Hollywood is perverting everything with sex and violence and none of us should watch it, but continues to watch Game of Thrones I think that's something of an indicator of their sincerity. Similarly, when we get the people on this forum who complain about a particular style of discourse and then in the same post do the exact same thing, that is reason for me to at least consider the possibility that it's insincere.

Online superdave

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 08:31:48 AM »
Some religious groups are more insistent about religious education and I would guess that people in those groups are more knowledgeable about their own religion than in others.  But I would bet that hypocritical behavior happens in every religion.
I disavow anyone in the movement involved in any illegal,unethical, sexist, or racist behavior. However, I don't have the energy or time to investigate each person and case, and a lack of individual disavowals for each incident should not be construed as condoning such behavior.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 12:38:25 PM »
I think the last several posts were excellent, but I'm too lazy to quote them all.
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Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 01:20:49 PM »
It is a fallacy to see "Born Again" Christianity as some complete theological system that incorporates ll of the Bible (even though it claims its inerrancy). Instead, it is a political/social memeplex as much as anything.

This starts with the taking of a single verse out of the gospel that emerged many years after the time of Jesus:

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

In my reading and remembrance, this meme begins taking off in the post-WWII Southern Baptist revivals, from which Billy Graham emerged as dominant. The white Southerners at that time had largely been left behind by 20th Century progress. They lost the Civil War not that long before, with people still alive from that era during the Great Depression, and family stories still fresh.

The Southern Baptist theology of "the elect," where some people (us) are saved and other people (them) go to Hell, became an important focus of their worth as people, even while scorned by much of the rest of the country as "hillbillies."

Pentecostals emerged first from the Appalachian hills as an adaptation of this theology. If you had direct experience with "the Holy Spirit" through speaking in tongues and other manifestations, you were clearly one of "the saved elect."

Bill Graham "cleaned up" this "born again/saved elect" theology and brought it north and west, capturing mostly other disaffected white groups, and some black religious groups as well (although they remained segregated).

Calvary Chapel and others in California adapted this to the youth culture of the 1960s and 1970s through "Praise Music" and other more contemporary worship styles, but the theology remained the same. A lot of these people were also the "left behinds" from the more "hip" parts of that culture, and a cultural split widened between the "Hollywood" culture and the "Born Agains."

Those 1960s-70s youth are now middle-aged and getting older, and their resentment against the rest of the culture still bubbles up in their political leanings.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 04:11:38 PM »
The best and likely only way to avoid hypocrisy is to strip yourself of any standards worth keeping. 

I basically agree with what Skeptiqueer has said in this thread.  Yes there are hypocritical pastors in the born again movement and they get most of the press.  As skepti said, no-ones going to write a national news story about a pastor that doesn't live an exorbitant lifestyle and has never been caught doing anything untoward.  Which, I bet is the vast majority of such pastors.

Online daniel1948

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2018, 05:20:13 PM »
Carrie Poppy gave an excellent talk about hypocrisy at the Australian Skepitcs convention, broadcast on a recent episode of the Oh No Ross and Carrie podcast. I particularly liked her talk because I am a terrible hypocrite, so it was nice to learn that I am not alone (Carrie says that she's a hypocrite). We're all hypocrites.

Evangelical mega-church pastors tend to be nasty, vicious people, which is separate from whether or not they are hypocrites.
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Is there something in this - Born Again Christian and hypocrisy?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 11:30:40 AM »
Thomas Kinkade...the popularity of his art eludes me. There was a Kinkade gallery in Roswell GA near where i live that has since closed. There used to be nearly 400 nationwide. I believe there are only a few dozen left.

Real artists are failures while alive and only appreciated after they die. Kinkade art sold for thousands while he was alive. After he died, I think you could get some of his crap in exchange for a handful of Beanie Babies.

Yes, we're all hypocrites. But there's a special place in the dark parts of my heart for those that use their hypocrisy to sell snake oil to the poor dupes among us. That includes the televangelist and the homeopath. And Kinkade was no different. He bilked people out of millions. At least the dupes are left with the art they can enjoy though they will get more for the frame if they try to sell.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 11:49:40 AM by gebobs »