Author Topic: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders  (Read 10189 times)

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Offline Awatsjr

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 02:33:27 PM »
I don’t believe that for a moment.  He wanted to die a martyr.

And there were people encouraging and reinforcing that belief.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 06:29:38 PM »
I believe, based on the ideals attributed to him by people who knew him, that he craved adventure but didn't have an overt death wish. It seems obvious that he was well aware of the peril, but his religious faith no doubt inspired an irrational optimism about his chances of making friends with the Sentinelese and converting them to Christianity. At the same time it seems he was also quite prepared to become a martyr if his mission should fail.

Either way, the guy must have had quite an ego to even attempt something so foolishly brazen.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2018, 06:54:50 PM »
I doubt seriously that this very sad and pathetic incident is going to inspire a film such as ‘the Mission,’ which was very good, despite being a box-office flop.  It has a magnificent screen score by Ennio Morricone including ‘Gabriel’s Oboe’ which often finds a place on listeners’ favourite classical music pieces.

The difference probably is that ‘the Mission’ was based on the Jesuits who were partly concerned with understanding the indigenous culture, whereas this missionary just wanted to convert them.
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Offline Awatsjr

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 05:19:06 PM »
...

Either way, the guy must have had quite an ego to even attempt something so foolishly brazen.

This isn't that uncommon especially in evangelicals. They have a bead on truth and nothing with make them stop and thing about it rationally.  I had two people at work that were so convinced of their cosmic insight that they wouldn't stop bringing it up after I told them in no uncertain terms that I thought they had ZERO insight (or knowledge anymore useful than myself.) Luckily they moved on.

But the bottom line is that there are others within their group that reinforcing their belief that they have that insight and I consider them complicit when they do stupid things. But alas, they aren't going away.

"I know you think you are right and others tell you that you are right but you aren't."
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 05:21:30 PM by Awatsjr »

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 10:40:56 PM »
As a secular humanist, I want to feel bad for him - he's just another foolish victim of ignorance. His actions makes it hard to empathize though. I also wonder if he truly understood the danger he brought to the Sentinelese.

If all aboriginal nations could have done this, the world would be a better place.

I sometimes struggle with this and I am still not yet sure what to make of it. Maybe a lack of imagination, but I do not see how humanity could have progressed as well in modern times if everyone remained in isolation. I'll break this down in 2 points.

1. There was so much suffering caused by violent clashes between cultures throughout the world. At the same time, contemporary societies most likely evolved out of various cultures making contact and transferring useful knowledge from very ancient times until present.

2. A huge wealth of fascinating histories exist in the world: Vietnam empire, Indus Valley civilization, Mongol empires, European civilizations, Maya/Inca empires, Songhai, Great Zimbabwe, Ashanti, Egypt, Aksum etc... I am saddened many of these civilizations went practically extinct, but I kind of want to live in a world where their existence is acknowledged and known. They are a huge opportunity to learn about human nature and how it manifests itself.

Offline 2397

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2018, 12:26:50 AM »
Having more parts of the Earth protected and left alone would've done us some good in terms of the climate.

Offline Rai

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2018, 01:26:20 AM »
I sometimes struggle with this and I am still not yet sure what to make of it. Maybe a lack of imagination, but I do not see how humanity could have progressed as well in modern times if everyone remained in isolation. I'll break this down in 2 points.

1. There was so much suffering caused by violent clashes between cultures throughout the world. At the same time, contemporary societies most likely evolved out of various cultures making contact and transferring useful knowledge from very ancient times until present.

2. A huge wealth of fascinating histories exist in the world: Vietnam empire, Indus Valley civilization, Mongol empires, European civilizations, Maya/Inca empires, Songhai, Great Zimbabwe, Ashanti, Egypt, Aksum etc... I am saddened many of these civilizations went practically extinct, but I kind of want to live in a world where their existence is acknowledged and known. They are a huge opportunity to learn about human nature and how it manifests itself.

I am not talking about isolation. I am talking about the European invasion and destruction of the rest of the world (where missionaries played a huge part), with much of its people.

I am talking about how five of the seven continents had all their economic, social and political progress wiped out and replaced with brutality, inter-communal animosity and servitude. Just because they did not realise quickly enough that the Europeans did not come an peace and that their attempts at invasion should be resisted by all means.

Afterwards, normal relations could have been established.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 01:33:58 AM by Rai »

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 08:24:56 AM »
Surely the missionary is in "a better place."

Among the other weak ideas of fundamentalism, I am always fascinated how "true believer" families often insist on high-risk, futile, sometimes horrible, measures to keep Grandma alive. Do they not really believe in that "better place"? Or understand that there is a new human-created "limbo" that we put people to keep them alive in that is in no way "God's natural way"?

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Online haudace

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2018, 06:30:39 PM »
I sometimes struggle with this and I am still not yet sure what to make of it. Maybe a lack of imagination, but I do not see how humanity could have progressed as well in modern times if everyone remained in isolation. I'll break this down in 2 points.

1. There was so much suffering caused by violent clashes between cultures throughout the world. At the same time, contemporary societies most likely evolved out of various cultures making contact and transferring useful knowledge from very ancient times until present.

2. A huge wealth of fascinating histories exist in the world: Vietnam empire, Indus Valley civilization, Mongol empires, European civilizations, Maya/Inca empires, Songhai, Great Zimbabwe, Ashanti, Egypt, Aksum etc... I am saddened many of these civilizations went practically extinct, but I kind of want to live in a world where their existence is acknowledged and known. They are a huge opportunity to learn about human nature and how it manifests itself.

I am not talking about isolation. I am talking about the European invasion and destruction of the rest of the world (where missionaries played a huge part), with much of its people.

Hmm - I don't know. I am not denying colonial times were very destructive to many. But I am also not comfortable blaming a whole group of people for the actions of a few a couple generations ago.

The guy who got killed by Sentinelese was obviously extremely misguided, perhaps even psychologically disturbed. At the same time, there is absolutely no reason to assume his intentions were to invade and destroy. He was an ignorant asshole for sure though.

Quote
I am talking about how five of the seven continents had all their economic, social and political progress wiped out and replaced with brutality, inter-communal animosity and servitude. Just because they did not realise quickly enough that the Europeans did not come an peace and that their attempts at invasion should be resisted by all means.

Afterwards, normal relations could have been established.

To be fair, humanity has been involved in war with or without Europeans calling the shots. History is marred with so much violence.

I'd rather focus on positive outcomes of human social evolution throughout history and genuine attempts to not repeat past mistakes.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2018, 06:54:50 PM »
"No means no." If he can't understand that he shouldn't have been running around loose.
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Offline Rai

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 03:49:28 AM »
I sometimes struggle with this and I am still not yet sure what to make of it. Maybe a lack of imagination, but I do not see how humanity could have progressed as well in modern times if everyone remained in isolation. I'll break this down in 2 points.

1. There was so much suffering caused by violent clashes between cultures throughout the world. At the same time, contemporary societies most likely evolved out of various cultures making contact and transferring useful knowledge from very ancient times until present.

2. A huge wealth of fascinating histories exist in the world: Vietnam empire, Indus Valley civilization, Mongol empires, European civilizations, Maya/Inca empires, Songhai, Great Zimbabwe, Ashanti, Egypt, Aksum etc... I am saddened many of these civilizations went practically extinct, but I kind of want to live in a world where their existence is acknowledged and known. They are a huge opportunity to learn about human nature and how it manifests itself.

I am not talking about isolation. I am talking about the European invasion and destruction of the rest of the world (where missionaries played a huge part), with much of its people.

Hmm - I don't know. I am not denying colonial times were very destructive to many. But I am also not comfortable blaming a whole group of people for the actions of a few a couple generations ago.

Who is blaming a group of people for the actions of a few (actually not a few, but quite a lot. The slaveowners, the invaders, the colonisers, the traders, the lawmakers, the "explorers")

The guy who got killed by Sentinelese was obviously extremely misguided, perhaps even psychologically disturbed. At the same time, there is absolutely no reason to assume his intentions were to invade and destroy. He was an ignorant asshole for sure though.

He was a missionary. What was his goal, if not to invade and destroy? Did he not make landfall without the consent of the inhabitants? Was his goal not to convert the locals to the supersititon he believed to be superior? Was he expecting Christianity to live alongside the local culture and beliefs? He was an invader aiming to destroy Sentinelese culture.


To be fair, humanity has been involved in war with or without Europeans calling the shots. History is marred with so much violence.

I'd rather focus on positive outcomes of human social evolution throughout history and genuine attempts to not repeat past mistakes.

You cannot compare European colonisation with any other war, it was the single most destructive event in Human history. Which other war killed hundreds of millions of people and, I repeat, eliminated most social, economic and political progress of five continents?

Offline John Albert

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 07:29:56 AM »
I am talking about how five of the seven continents had all their economic, social and political progress wiped out and replaced with brutality, inter-communal animosity and servitude. Just because they did not realise quickly enough that the Europeans did not come an peace and that their attempts at invasion should be resisted by all means.

Afterwards, normal relations could have been established.

You mean, like how Japan did it?

Offline Rai

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 08:09:49 AM »
Japan went way too far. My ideal scenario would have been an initial strong resistance to European invaders and forcing out equal treaties and trade agreements.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2018, 12:33:44 PM »
Japan went way too far. My ideal scenario would have been an initial strong resistance to European invaders and forcing out equal treaties and trade agreements.
Did you mean "unequal treaties"?

You can find the 9 Power Treaty Japan abrogated  here: http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/NewPDFs/1922
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Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Christian missionary missing, presumed killed by Sentinelese islanders
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2018, 01:07:14 PM »
Japan went way too far. My ideal scenario would have been an initial strong resistance to European invaders and forcing out equal treaties and trade agreements.

That sounds like Trump's idea also.
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