Author Topic: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct  (Read 5438 times)

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Offline Awatsjr

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2018, 12:19:28 AM »

This may be a controversial opinion but does anyone else think we're seeing a lot of this in the sci/tech community for these reasons:

1. These communities have been lacking diversity (at least historically if not still presently) so they have not gained insight from other perspectives.

2. Sci/techies tend not to have the skill set of empathy / poor communication skills / introvert etc so can come across as awkward

3. Superiority complex. There is often an arrogance from sci & tech people (NGT often had this eg philosophy is bullshit).

I can't provide any comprehensive evidence of this but I did work in tech for 8 years and even left one team because I couldn't stand the arrogance.

I think this is more stereotype than reality from my experience.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2018, 10:32:36 AM »
This may be a controversial opinion but does anyone else think we're seeing a lot of this in the sci/tech community for these reasons:

I guess it depends on what you mean by "techie". IT admins, for example, are "Dunning-Krugers"; they think they understand how a computer system works because they have some ability to configure the system. If they actually had to write an OS or a design a CPU from scratch, they would go into a familiar kind of defensive mode that we all see when you show someone what they don't know. (By the way, I actually did both of those as part of my undergrad, though it was admittedly a highly simplified version of the real thing.) Sort of like the difference between being a mechanic that knows how to replace replaceable parts, versus being a mechanical engineer that participates in designing a powertrain.

I can only speak from the perspective of computer science, but the idea of hubris is a running joke. If you're "too good" to critically look at your own code and imagine what can cause it to fail, you don't have what it takes. Unfortunately, IME that ideal barely exists any more: It used to be the case that the software world was the pinnacle of egalitarianism (e.g. the stories of the female developers at Atari). As I understand it, it is far more regressive now that it has ever been. Corporate HR/managers gradually figured out that there is no point hiring people with self-awareness, since that self-awareness leads them to not want to work at any of the pile of garbage corporate employers.

Regarding the thread topic:

I am mostly interested in hearing the results of an investigation into the "dress peek" incident, as it sounds like there were potentially dozens or more people that saw it, and there was probably several video cameras running, but no one thought it was worth reporting.

Another note: Once something becomes mainstream, whether it is UFO abductions or #MeToo, there are always copycats. And people have always been making false accusations about celebrities in order to get attention, or maybe a cash settlement.

Some percentage of sexual assault and date rape fabrications are fake. And I guarantee you the percentage of false claims against Black men are significantly higher than the average. Having been homeless, and having spent time around rather low-class people (including women), I would say that percentage isn't even close to zero, maybe closer to fifty. When I was in public housing, my mother used to joke that the only way the neighbor across the street could get her man out of the house was slamming her face into a door and calling the police.

I think the real takeaway is that one should simply avoid being alone with a woman under any circumstance, unless you have video cameras set up in your apartment. But if you're that cold and logical, you probably already know this and are lucky enough to not have anything mentally debilitating like sexual attraction. Expect to see more stories like this in the future:

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/04/06/secret-recording-leads-to-dropping-sexual-assault-charges-against-uber-driver/

Offline mindme

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2018, 07:54:47 AM »
"There is often an arrogance from sci & tech people "

I think you're right, John. I think in the skeptical field we pat ourselves on the back going "but we're the good guys!" I've seen a lot of "good guys" and groups that self identify as the "good guys" then excuse a lot of horrible behavior. "I can't be X because I'm Y!"


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Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2018, 05:58:33 PM »
Are we next going to read about Steve being accused of sexual misconduct. .  .I am half afraid of that.
Seems like we can't have anybody that is actually nice.

More likely be Bob or Jay than Steve, since they are the ones making the risque jokes all the time. They'll make the wrong quip to the wrong person at a conference somewhere and there we'll be.

Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2018, 06:02:46 PM »

This may be a controversial opinion but does anyone else think we're seeing a lot of this in the sci/tech community for these reasons:

1. These communities have been lacking diversity (at least historically if not still presently) so they have not gained insight from other perspectives.

2. Sci/techies tend not to have the skill set of empathy / poor communication skills / introvert etc so can come across as awkward

3. Superiority complex. There is often an arrogance from sci & tech people (NGT often had this eg philosophy is bullshit).

I can't provide any comprehensive evidence of this but I did work in tech for 8 years and even left one team because I couldn't stand the arrogance.

I seem to recall reading reports  claiming to show a link between higher intelligence and higher libido. But it's probably another myth like humans using only ten percent of their brains or that bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly.

Online arthwollipot

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2018, 06:13:44 PM »
My opinion. I think that the first two allegations are extremely reasonable, and I think that his response to them is also reasonable. He was being creepy, and he didn't realise it at the time. This is a thing that happens. The best thing to do here is for him to acknowledge that he had misinterpreted the interaction, apologise, and do his best to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Which is what I think he's doing.

The third allegation seems a lot more problematic to me, and I think both that it is important for an investigation to focus on this, and that because it happened so long ago, any such investigation will encounter problems that may be insurmountable. ETA: I am also a bit bothered by his bringing up the alt-med aspect of that one.

That having been said, I am still reserving judgement. The accusers need to be heard. Have the first two women made a statement in response to his account?
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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2018, 06:20:03 PM »
My opinion. I think that the first two allegations are extremely reasonable, and I think that his response to them is also reasonable. He was being creepy, and he didn't realise it at the time. This is a thing that happens. The best thing to do here is for him to acknowledge that he had misinterpreted the interaction, apologise, and do his best to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Which is what I think he's doing.

The third allegation seems a lot more problematic to me, and I think both that it is important for an investigation to focus on this, and that because it happened so long ago, any such investigation will encounter problems that may be insurmountable. ETA: I am also a bit bothered by his bringing up the alt-med aspect of that one.

That having been said, I am still reserving judgement. The accusers need to be heard. Have the first two women made a statement in response to his account?
A 4th woman has come forward,

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-allegations-four-women?fbclid=IwAR0jS-lln1L2BmCaTUutVB9TGgvpqVosHzA2lfKz2w1RrL_N-lGPwDVyde8


Offline haudace

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2018, 08:18:11 PM »
If I'm to be honest I have a strong visceral desire to disbelieve thees allegations but that's exactly why we need to explore them. It is possible that this kind smart figure that we have pushed forward as a bulwark and proselytizer of the skeptical movement has some pretty bad skeletons in his closet. I wan't to believe the possibility of false memories as is Tyson's defense but if I believe what I want what kind of skeptic am I.

Indeed - I feel an irrational desire to 'protect' this icon and his accomplishments in science. It is good to acknowledge, this should help prevent bias clouding sound judgment.

Never mind the very serious rape accusation, which should be investigated, I am not sure what to think or how to interpret the other allegations. Was he being an old creep or are the other women describing sexual misconduct? What is the line between boorishness/clumsy flirtations and sexual harassment? It is starting to look like the line is getting fuzzier and fuzzier.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2018, 09:25:08 PM »
I seem to recall reading reports  claiming to show a link between higher intelligence and higher libido. But it's probably another myth like humans using only ten percent of their brains or that bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly.

Oddly enough, I always assumed it was the opposite.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2018, 09:51:10 PM »
Quote
This post has been updated to note that Amet reenrolled at UT Austin for a semester, with a focus on ancient astronomy.

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Offline gebobs

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2018, 10:03:40 AM »
I seem to recall reading reports  claiming to show a link between higher intelligence and higher libido. But it's probably another myth like humans using only ten percent of their brains or that bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly.

Oddly enough, I always assumed it was the opposite.


Offline mindme

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2018, 12:46:31 PM »
Tyson, creepy boss. Creepy drunk. I think every woman has had both. We hope our heroes are better than this. Sadly, behind even slightly ajar doors, they just ain't. If men with any power or an iota of fame haven't heard the message yet, stop treating your employees like sexual conquests. Stop thinking you can just proposition fans and admirers at parties.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2018, 12:51:30 PM »
Are we next going to read about Steve being accused of sexual misconduct. .  .I am half afraid of that.
Seems like we can't have anybody that is actually nice.

More likely be Bob or Jay than Steve, since they are the ones making the risque jokes all the time. They'll make the wrong quip to the wrong person at a conference somewhere and there we'll be.

There have already been allegations made toward Jay, brought to Steve, with no resolution.

Offline D4M10N

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2018, 01:06:16 PM »


Tyson, creepy boss. Creepy drunk. I think every woman has had both. We hope our heroes are better than this. Sadly, behind even slightly ajar doors, they just ain't. If men with any power or an iota of fame haven't heard the message yet, stop treating your employees like sexual conquests. Stop thinking you can just proposition fans and admirers at parties.

This approach is going to put a serious kink in the conference circuit.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Under Investigation for Sexual Misconduct
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2018, 01:57:13 PM »
Are we next going to read about Steve being accused of sexual misconduct. .  .I am half afraid of that.
Seems like we can't have anybody that is actually nice.

More likely be Bob or Jay than Steve, since they are the ones making the risque jokes all the time. They'll make the wrong quip to the wrong person at a conference somewhere and there we'll be.

There have already been allegations made toward Jay, brought to Steve, with no resolution.
I believe it was Evan if we are thinking of the same situation?
Please tell me its not both?

 

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