Author Topic: Episode #700  (Read 25515 times)

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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #165 on: December 27, 2018, 06:58:27 PM »

You keep repeating yourself... everyone here understands your point,  they just disagree with it.


Just because the people who respond insisting that ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons with readily ascertainable gender such as CarbShark, who signs every single one of his comments with ‘I’m just a guy,’ doesn’t make them right.

If ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons, then ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ would be acceptable.

Are you arguing that?  Really?

It’s got nothing to attempting to avoid sexism in language or political correctness.


Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #166 on: December 27, 2018, 07:06:51 PM »
Yeah. Really. That example is absolutely fine.

Could you repost your comment and make it explicit that you think ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ is an acceptable formulation?  I want it as a ‘keeper.’
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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #167 on: December 27, 2018, 07:13:24 PM »

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #168 on: December 27, 2018, 07:47:11 PM »
Yeah. Really. That example is absolutely fine.

Could you repost your comment and make it explicit that you think ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ is an acceptable formulation?  I want it as a ‘keeper.’
You are a very strange person.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #169 on: December 27, 2018, 10:34:43 PM »

You keep repeating yourself... everyone here understands your point,  they just disagree with it.


Just because the people who respond insisting that ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons with readily ascertainable gender such as CarbShark, who signs every single one of his comments with ‘I’m just a guy,’ doesn’t make them right.

If ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons, then ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ would be acceptable.

Are you arguing that?  Really?

It’s got nothing to attempting to avoid sexism in language or political correctness.



Yes, I know I feel as though I’m flogging the dead horse of people thinking that it’s not allowed to write or say John Smith is a ‘he’ instead it’s necessary to write or say John Smith is a ‘they’. as if John Smith is a man is unallowably sexist, and only John Smith is a person is permissible.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #170 on: December 28, 2018, 12:22:50 AM »

You keep repeating yourself... everyone here understands your point,  they just disagree with it.


Just because the people who respond insisting that ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons with readily ascertainable gender such as CarbShark, who signs every single one of his comments with ‘I’m just a guy,’ doesn’t make them right.

If ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons, then ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ would be acceptable.

Are you arguing that?  Really?

It’s got nothing to attempting to avoid sexism in language or political correctness.



Yes, I know I feel as though I’m flogging the dead horse of people thinking that it’s not allowed to write or say John Smith is a ‘he’ instead it’s necessary to write or say John Smith is a ‘they’. as if John Smith is a man is unallowably sexist, and only John Smith is a person is permissible.
Are you aware of what you’re saying? Do you know what those words mean when in that order?


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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #171 on: December 28, 2018, 12:36:49 AM »

You keep repeating yourself... everyone here understands your point,  they just disagree with it.


Just because the people who respond insisting that ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons with readily ascertainable gender such as CarbShark, who signs every single one of his comments with ‘I’m just a guy,’ doesn’t make them right.

If ‘they’ is an acceptable 3rd person singular pronoun for single specified persons, then ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chairperson of the ABC Corporation’ would be acceptable.

Are you arguing that?  Really?

It’s got nothing to attempting to avoid sexism in language or political correctness.



Yes, I know I feel as though I’m flogging the dead horse of people thinking that it’s not allowed to write or say John Smith is a ‘he’ instead it’s necessary to write or say John Smith is a ‘they’. as if John Smith is a man is unallowably sexist, and only John Smith is a person is permissible.
Are you aware of what you’re saying? Do you know what those words mean when in that order?


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Yes, I do know.  Do you know what you’re saying, when you think your being referred to as ‘they’ instead of ‘he’ is OK, when there’s only one of you and you’re male?  Or are there more than one of you, and you’re not male?
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Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #172 on: December 28, 2018, 02:10:46 AM »
bachfiend, despite the numerous posts in this thread, I remain confused by what you are trying to argue.

Other posters have patiently tried to explain that languages evolve over time. The singular they is becoming widely used in English and an increasing number of style guides are endorsing its adoption. Several pieces posted in this thread have included arguments for the benefits of using the singular they.

You have repeatedly argued that the singular they is unacceptable. I certainly understand that it is unacceptable to you, and I don't think anyone is arguing that you must use it (except in a case where it is a person's preferred pronoun, which obviously just comes down to a matter of decency). It was your criticism of someone else's usage that led to this whole discussion.

I think you are failing to understand that your personal preferences on this issue are irrelevant. You can try to impose archaic rules on people, but the English language is moving on without you. You will end up seeming as silly as if you insisted on thou/thy/thee.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #173 on: December 28, 2018, 02:43:15 AM »
bachfiend, despite the numerous posts in this thread, I remain confused by what you are trying to argue.

Other posters have patiently tried to explain that languages evolve over time. The singular they is becoming widely used in English and an increasing number of style guides are endorsing its adoption. Several pieces posted in this thread have included arguments for the benefits of using the singular they.

You have repeatedly argued that the singular they is unacceptable. I certainly understand that it is unacceptable to you, and I don't think anyone is arguing that you must use it (except in a case where it is a person's preferred pronoun, which obviously just comes down to a matter of decency). It was your criticism of someone else's usage that led to this whole discussion.

I think you are failing to understand that your personal preferences on this issue are irrelevant. You can try to impose archaic rules on people, but the English language is moving on without you. You will end up seeming as silly as if you insisted on thou/thy/thee.

It’s political correctness gone mad referring to a single specified person with an obvious gender such as ‘John Smith’ with ‘they’ when it’s obvious that it should be ‘he.’

I don’t have any objection to using ‘they’ when it’s not specified that there’s one and only one subjects present, such as with ‘someone’ which could be two or more subjects, or one only.  Using ‘he’ as the default pronoun used to be acceptable, but it’s accepted now that it should be avoided.

There are no advantages to using ‘they’ with single identified subjects.  Just disadvantages in creating confusion and obfuscation.
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Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #174 on: December 28, 2018, 03:45:24 AM »
Yeah. Really. That example is absolutely fine.

Yup.  It's a little like splitting an infinitive... it's OK even though you might not like it.  And bachfiend might choose to never do it themself.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:54:46 AM by Friendly Angel »
Amend and resubmit.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #175 on: December 28, 2018, 04:56:59 AM »
Yeah. Really. That example is absolutely fine.

Yup.  It's a little like splitting an infinitive... it's OK even though you might not like it.  And bachfiend might choose to never do it themself.

It’s OK to split an infinitive.  The prohibition from splitting the infinitive came from Latin.  And English isn’t Latin.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #176 on: December 28, 2018, 07:08:26 AM »
No one is telling you that you have to use specific pronouns.
You happen to be wrong that gender is always obvious (Take Rhea Butcher for example, a famous female presenting non binary individual) but even if it is obvious, using 'they' is an acceptable practice and nothing to do with political correctness 'gone mad'.
To impugn someone's intelligence on the basis of its usage is certainly absurd.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #177 on: December 28, 2018, 09:53:32 AM »
It saddens me that “they” has become the de-facto neuter singular pronoun for referring to people, where “it” is regarded as unacceptable, though some gender-nonconforming people prefer it. But I recognize that this is the way English has come during my lifetime.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #178 on: December 28, 2018, 11:02:52 AM »
  Or are there more than one of you, and you’re not male?

I'm not the only one.  CarbShark is legion.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #179 on: December 28, 2018, 01:43:36 PM »
  Or are there more than one of you, and you’re not male?

I'm not the only one.  CarbShark is legion.

So you’re going to change your signature to something like ‘we’re not doctors, we’re just guys who have done a ton of research?’
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