Author Topic: Episode #700  (Read 22445 times)

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Online 2397

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2018, 04:58:07 AM »
What about a home woman, one child (tradeable) right.  Worldwide and all medically assisted child bearing treatments banned.  Rough, but not as rough as all the requirements to keep global temperatures reasonable.  Basically, the world is fucked if we don't make rather drastic measures now.

But it's the type of measure that leads to women dying in childbirth and from easily treatable conditions during pregnancy, and children being born in secrecy to be outcasts for the rest of their lives, or being discarded and left to die.

And that's before we get to the part where we deliberately punish people for having had too many children.

It's so much easier and less hazardous to implement mandatory science-based sex education, and free birth control, condoms and sterilization, for anyone who wants it. A little bit more difficult to deal with the specific motivations for having children, but we are already doing it with things like banning child labor and implementing public welfare.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2018, 12:50:09 PM »
I just mentioned that, but NOTHING less will work to save us.  I'll be dead, most likely, before the death spiral begins... or maybe it as already started.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2018, 11:45:19 AM »
My wife thinks we should put sterilization chemicals in the water supply and only distribute the antidote to people who pass a basic parenting test.  Of course this is more of a thought experiment since we couldn't actually do any of that, but her point is that people should be sterile until proven responsible enough to have a child.  She works in education and sees some horrendous parents.
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gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2018, 12:41:44 PM »
I heard that first on a RNZ interview of Jim Flynn (professor at Otago and author of the Flynn Effect) by Kim Hill.  He of course said it was only in jest...
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Online daniel1948

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2018, 06:54:29 PM »
My wife thinks we should put sterilization chemicals in the water supply and only distribute the antidote to people who pass a basic parenting test.  Of course this is more of a thought experiment since we couldn't actually do any of that, but her point is that people should be sterile until proven responsible enough to have a child.  She works in education and sees some horrendous parents.

As you say, we could never do that. But it sure would be a great idea.
Daniel
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2018, 07:17:09 PM »
As I have said before, the problem is not that there are too many people. The problem is that the globe's resources are unevenly distributed, and there are people in power who have a vested interest in remaining that way. We could easily feed the global population today - no-one needs to starve. With the application of technology we already have, we could sustain a much higher population. The problem is that there is no political will to do this.
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Online daniel1948

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2018, 07:37:07 PM »
As I have said before, the problem is not that there are too many people. The problem is that the globe's resources are unevenly distributed, and there are people in power who have a vested interest in remaining that way. We could easily feed the global population today - no-one needs to starve. With the application of technology we already have, we could sustain a much higher population. The problem is that there is no political will to do this.

While we could feed the world today, present systems are not sustainable. We are rapidly transforming the Earth’s environment into one in which we will not be able to feed everyone. And we’re still multiplying like rabbits.
Daniel
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2018, 03:22:21 AM »
As I have said before, the problem is not that there are too many people. The problem is that the globe's resources are unevenly distributed, and there are people in power who have a vested interest in remaining that way. We could easily feed the global population today - no-one needs to starve. With the application of technology we already have, we could sustain a much higher population. The problem is that there is no political will to do this.

Total BS, IMHO.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Isranner

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2018, 07:21:09 AM »
My wife thinks we should put sterilization chemicals in the water supply and only distribute the antidote to people who pass a basic parenting test.  Of course this is more of a thought experiment since we couldn't actually do any of that, but her point is that people should be sterile until proven responsible enough to have a child.  She works in education and sees some horrendous parents.

— And who the fvck are you to tell other people how or when to procreate? Power junkies, control freaks, wannabe tyrants, that's who you are. You could blend in perfectly with the communist ruling caste of the Chinese regime.



• David Emery. “Did Bill Nye Say Parents Should Be Penalized for Having ‘Extra Kids’?” Snopes.com (2017-04-05)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-nye-extra-kids

• Valerie Richardson. “Bill Nye, the science guy, is open to criminal charges and jail time for climate change dissenters.” The Washington Times (2016-04-14)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-criminal-charges-jail-time-climate-c

“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve. This is true even of the pious brethren who carry the gospel to foreign parts.”

— H.L. Mencken. “Minority Report: H.L. Mencken’s Notebooks.” Alfred A. Knopf (1956)
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZVD1AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA369
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/04/06/rule-humanity

Online 2397

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2018, 07:30:21 AM »
We can feed more and more people, we can feed everyone now. But we have annual emissions of 37 billion tons of CO2, which is about 37 billion tons too much. And by the time we achieve a total of 0 in emissions, we'll probably need net negative emissions.

One thing that would be very handy to reduce emissions with, is lots and lots of land to grow forests on, and any other growth or stable structures that can hold carbon indefinitely. If we fully transition from animals to synthetically produced meat, that could do it. But a larger population means we'll have less land to work with and greater needs to meet.

Offline Isranner

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2018, 09:59:49 AM »
We can feed more and more people, we can feed everyone now. But we have annual emissions of 37 billion tons of CO2, which is about 37 billion tons too much. And by the time we achieve a total of 0 in emissions, we'll probably need net negative emissions.

One thing that would be very handy to reduce emissions with, is lots and lots of land to grow forests on, and any other growth or stable structures that can hold carbon indefinitely. If we fully transition from animals to synthetically produced meat, that could do it…

— Because plant-based diets only work for herbivorous hippies and privileged elitists.

“Give me steak, or give me death!”

Steve Jobs died of cancer because of his vegetarian diet. See?:

“Although it has been speculated that Steve Jobs was a vegan or vegetarian, apparently such was not the case (he was pescetarian, which is basically a vegetarian diet plus seafood). So post-surgical difficulties maintaining nutrition because of a special diet that might not have meshed well with Jobs’ new anatomy could have been the problem.”

— David Gorski. “Steve Jobs’ cancer and pushing the limits of science-based medicine.” Science-Based Medicine (2011-10-10)
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-death-of-steve-jobs


“None of us, of course, can say for certain what caused the pancreatic cancer that led to Steve Jobs’s death, or what, if anything could have saved him. Dietary, lifestyle, environmental and genetic factors all must have come into play. But McDougall’s failure to even consider the role that Jobs’s vegan diet — and frequent fruitarianism — may have played in his death is unhelpful at best and irresponsible at worst.
Shortly after Jobs’s death on October 5, 2011, I read the Walter Isaacson biography Steve Jobs and posted two ‘iVegetarian’ blogs at this website in which I thoroughly documented a longstanding pattern of food fanaticism, eating disorders and mood swings dating back to Jobs’s teenage years.

[…]
That the fructose in Jobs’s fruit heavy diet likely contributed to this cancer is supported by research published in the November 2007 issue of American Journal of Clinical Nutrition which concluded there was ‘evidence for a greater pancreatic cancer risk with a high intake of fruit and juices but not with a high intake of sodas.’ In other words, the ‘healthy’ juices regularly drunk by Jobs may have been been even worse than the soft drinks he seems to have rejected.
More recently, in the August 2010 issue of Cancer Research, Dr. Anthony Healy of the Jonsson Cancer Center and Director of the Pituitary Tumor and Neuroendocrine Program at UCLA, proposed that aberrant fructose metabolism—and not just aberrant glucose metabolism—might be involved in the pathogenesis of pancreatic cancer. Seems fructose provides the raw material cancer cells prefer to use to make the DNA they need to divide and proliferate.
Although the UCLA findings are preliminary, based on cell lines, and more suggestive than bulletproof at this stage, the Reuters headline ‘Cancer Cells Slurp Up Fructose’ is fair warning to any of us addicted to fruit and fruit juices. Although the work is widely cited in recommendations to step back on the amount of high fructose corn syrup in modern diets, it suggests the dangers of fruit juice as well.
McDougall read the Isaacson biography and based a lot of his speculation on it. Yet he somehow missed — or chose to ignore — the fact that Jobs’s brand of veganism included massive amounts of fruit juice, with its dangerous load of fructose. Instead, McDougall sees the main flaw in Jobs’s ‘mostly excellent’ diet as eating meat analogue products high in carcinogenic soy protein isolate. In fact, as I discuss extensively in Chapter 16 of The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America’s Favorite Health Food, soy protein isolate and other soy protein products are well-established risk factors for the exocrine type of pancreatic cancer that killed actors Michael Landon, Patrick Swayze and astronaut Sally Ride, but not for the much rarer endocrine type that killed Jobs.
Furthermore, we have little evidence that Jobs ate much soy over his lifetime. In a book full of food references, Isaacson does not mention soy even once. Certainly, the Apple culture was soy friendly with soy milk readily available in vending machines and at coffee stations and with soy meats served up at company cafeterias, but we have no good evidence yet that Jobs favored it. Indeed, it is very likely he rejected it because of his longstanding fascination with the book The Mucusless Diet Healing System by Arnold Ehret (1866-1922). Ehret’s peculiar brand of VeganThink held the human body is an ‘air-gas engine’ that runs well only on fruits, starchless vegetables and edible green leaves. Soy and other legumes, according to this way of thinking, were to be disdained as mucus-producing forbidden foods. Ehret — whose own ‘air-gas engine’ sputtered, stalled and died at age 56, the same age as Jobs — not only condemned protein and fat as ‘unnatural’ but said they could not be used by the body.
Inspired by Ehret’s theories, Jobs appears to have eaten a diet low in both fat and protein for most of his life. And what did he eat instead? Carbs high in fructose, the very type of carbs linked to blood sugar problems and pancreatic cancer.”


— Kaayla T Daniell, PhD (The Naughty Nutritionist™). “VeganThink: Dr. John McDougall Explains the Death of Steve Jobs.” Weston A. Price (2012-12-31)
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-alert/veganthink-dr-john-mcdougall-explains-the-death-of-steve-jobs

Online 2397

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2018, 11:16:03 AM »
Going vegan would definitely be a way to get off of using animals for meat production. But if we can produce the same product in a significantly more efficient way, that will make it a lot easier to make the switch.

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2018, 11:49:24 AM »
We got a live one here.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2018, 04:32:17 PM »
E.O Wilson doesn't think there is currently a sustainable human population; someone that thinks deeply about this and has shown the world he's not only a great biologist, but excellent at putting numbers to ecology.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2018, 06:27:19 PM »
As I have said before, the problem is not that there are too many people. The problem is that the globe's resources are unevenly distributed, and there are people in power who have a vested interest in remaining that way. We could easily feed the global population today - no-one needs to starve. With the application of technology we already have, we could sustain a much higher population. The problem is that there is no political will to do this.

Total BS, IMHO.

You're welcome to do your own research.
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him.

Tarvek: There's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it.
Agatha: If that's what you think, then you're DOING IT WRONG!