Author Topic: Episode #700  (Read 21206 times)

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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #345 on: January 09, 2019, 08:23:19 PM »
The use of ‘they’ referring to single specified persons of readily ascertainable gender is not generally acceptable to many people.  It being used by some, perhaps many people doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable.  Usage isn’t the same as acceptance.

There are valid uses of the ‘singular they.’  Including ‘anyone can succeed if they try’ instead of ‘anyone can succeed if he tries.’  But historically, the ‘singular they’ has never been used for single specified persons.  It’s ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  He is the chairman of the ABC Corporation,’ not ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  They are the chair of the ABC Corporation.’

The misuse of the ‘singular they’ is a modern abuse due to political correctness gone mad.

Not a single thing you've just posted in this is correct or supported or relevant.

The most authoritative sources for what's acceptable in the English language are dictionaries and style guides.

At this point you are simply trolling. (Which is probably what you've been doing all along on this and other topics).

Examples of historical use of the ‘singular they being used for single specified persons?’

Dictionaries record usage, not correctness.  Dictionaries include ‘ain’t,’ not because it’s correct, but because it’s used.  Style guides are just opinions.  ‘Kilometre’ is usually pronounced like ‘speedometer’ and ‘thermometer,’ but that pronunciation is incorrect - it should be pronounced in the same way as ‘kilogram.’

The ‘singular they’ for single persons is still heavily disputed.
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Online brilligtove

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #346 on: January 09, 2019, 08:33:29 PM »
What I enjoy is his inability to comprehend that he is using 'correct' incorrectly.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #347 on: January 09, 2019, 09:08:53 PM »
What I enjoy is his inability to comprehend that he is using 'correct' incorrectly.

So how am I using ‘correct’ incorrectly?
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #348 on: January 09, 2019, 09:48:57 PM »

Examples of historical use of the ‘singular they being used for single specified persons?

Again, Dr reading comprehension no one is claiming this was historically acceptable. It’s a fairly recent development in the English language.

Quote
Dictionaries record usage, not correctness. 


They do both.
Quote
Dictionaries include ‘ain’t,’ not because it’s correct, but because it’s used. 

And they describe it as slang.



Quote
Style guides are just opinions. 
Authoritative opinions.

Quote
‘Kilometre’ is usually pronounced like ‘speedometer’ and ‘thermometer,’ but that pronunciation is incorrect - it should be pronounced in the same way as ‘kilogram.’

And red herrings aren’t always red.

Quote
The ‘singular they’ for single persons is still heavily disputed.

By you.



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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #349 on: January 09, 2019, 10:26:27 PM »

Examples of historical use of the ‘singular they being used for single specified persons?

Again, Dr reading comprehension no one is claiming this was historically acceptable. It’s a fairly recent development in the English language.

Quote
Dictionaries record usage, not correctness. 


They do both.
Quote
Dictionaries include ‘ain’t,’ not because it’s correct, but because it’s used. 

And they describe it as slang.



Quote
Style guides are just opinions. 
Authoritative opinions.

Quote
‘Kilometre’ is usually pronounced like ‘speedometer’ and ‘thermometer,’ but that pronunciation is incorrect - it should be pronounced in the same way as ‘kilogram.’

And red herrings aren’t always red.

Quote
The ‘singular they’ for single persons is still heavily disputed.

By you.



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One of the arguments made for the ‘singular they’ (perhaps not by you) on this forum was that it’s been used since around 1375 CE.  But not historically for single identified persons.

And the use of the ‘singular you’ for single identified persons is still heavily disputed.  I agree the other uses are acceptable.

Style guides are just opinions.  You can write the same thing in different ways according to preference, including not using pronouns (there’s a style aversion to repeating words in sentences, but that’s not an absolute - German doesn’t share this aversion; my signature includes 3 consecutive ihr.s, the 1st ‘you familiar plural,’ the 2nd ‘her pronoun,’ and the 3rd ‘possessive article).  Errors of grammar (such as not using ‘they’ for a single person) are absolutes.  Infringements are substandard English.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #350 on: January 09, 2019, 11:27:49 PM »
Errors of grammar (such as not using ‘they’ for a single person) are absolutes.  Infringements are substandard English.

But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

You yourself have repeated there are some cases where they is acceptable as a reference to one person.

That means it's not an absolute. You're wasting all this bandwidth arguing about a minor extension of the acceptability of doing that.

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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #351 on: January 10, 2019, 02:53:27 AM »
Errors of grammar (such as not using ‘they’ for a single person) are absolutes.  Infringements are substandard English.

But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

You yourself have repeated there are some cases where they is acceptable as a reference to one person.

That means it's not an absolute. You're wasting all this bandwidth arguing about a minor extension of the acceptability of doing that.

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.

But anyway, I’ve been thinking.  I think the suggestion in the German language of devising new 3rd person singular pronouns is a good one.  The suggested German ones of ‘dey’/ ‘deyren’ can easily be carried over to the English.

Let’s see:  ‘I saw John Smith this morning.  Dey is the chair of the ABC Corporation.  When I saw deyn, dey was driving deyren new car.’

‘Dey’ to be pronounced to rhyme with ‘they.’  ‘Deyren’ pronounced as two syllables.  ‘Deyn’ so as to decline as do ‘he and she.’  Seems better than the suggested alternatives.

I might starte using it myself and start a trend.
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Online brilligtove

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #352 on: January 10, 2019, 08:08:55 AM »
What I enjoy is his inability to comprehend that he is using 'correct' incorrectly.

So how am I using ‘correct’ incorrectly?

Example error in the use of the concept of correctness with respect to language:

Errors of grammar (such as not using ‘they’ for a single person) are absolutes.  Infringements are substandard English.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #353 on: January 10, 2019, 11:37:51 AM »
If the world had more people like Bachfiend, literally wouldn't literally mean figuratively.

I hope I don't live long enough to see, "infer," and, "imply," end up the same way.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #354 on: January 10, 2019, 02:04:42 PM »
What I enjoy is his inability to comprehend that he is using 'correct' incorrectly.

So how am I using ‘correct’ incorrectly?

Example error in the use of the concept of correctness with respect to language:

Errors of grammar (such as not using ‘they’ for a single person) are absolutes.  Infringements are substandard English.

If you make an absolute error in grammar, then you are writing substandard English.  Still English, but substandard.  Such as when you write ‘literally,’ when it’s only ‘figuratively,’ or when you write that a person is ‘inferring’ something, when dey’s only ‘implying’ it (and you’re doing the inferring).  The same when you use ‘they’ for a single identified person when it should be ‘he,’ ‘she,’ or ‘dey.’
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #355 on: January 10, 2019, 03:26:38 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 05:10:54 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #356 on: January 10, 2019, 06:16:36 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.

“Absolute ‘1.  Not qualified or diminished in any way.  Total.’”

Using ‘they’ to refer to single identified persons is an absolute grammatical error.  Just because it’s used in this way doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.  It just makes it substandard usage.
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Online brilligtove

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #357 on: January 10, 2019, 07:07:52 PM »
It's kinda neat to watch someone wallow in ignorance.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #358 on: January 10, 2019, 07:44:07 PM »
It's kinda neat to watch someone wallow in ignorance.

Yes, I do enjoy watching someone like you wallowing in ignorance.  Just because a word is used in the incorrect way, such as ‘neat’, doesn’t make that usage correct.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #359 on: January 10, 2019, 08:18:51 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.

“Absolute ‘1.  Not qualified or diminished in any way.  Total.’”

Using ‘they’ to refer to single identified persons is an absolute grammatical error.  Just because it’s used in this way doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.  It just makes it substandard usage.
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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

 

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