Author Topic: Episode #700  (Read 22997 times)

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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #360 on: January 10, 2019, 10:22:14 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.

“Absolute ‘1.  Not qualified or diminished in any way.  Total.’”

Using ‘they’ to refer to single identified persons is an absolute grammatical error.  Just because it’s used in this way doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.  It just makes it substandard usage.
I’m out


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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #361 on: January 10, 2019, 10:24:34 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.

“Absolute ‘1.  Not qualified or diminished in any way.  Total.’”

Using ‘they’ to refer to single identified persons is an absolute grammatical error.  Just because it’s used in this way doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.  It just makes it substandard usage.
I’m out


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Good.

Please don't take that as a concession of victory in the argument. We're just tired of beating our heads against your brick wall. Did you listen to the podcast episode that I linked to?
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #362 on: January 10, 2019, 10:44:47 PM »
But that's not an absolute. Do you even know what absolute means?

‘Absolute’means that it’s wrong.  Breaking it means that the English is substandard.


So, no, you do not know what absolute means in grammar. Got it.

Absolute phrases, and absolute errors, in grammar are a thing and they have nothing to do with this conversation.

“Absolute ‘1.  Not qualified or diminished in any way.  Total.’”

Using ‘they’ to refer to single identified persons is an absolute grammatical error.  Just because it’s used in this way doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.  It just makes it substandard usage.
I’m out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good.


Please don't take that as a concession of victory in the argument. We're just tired of beating our heads against your brick wall. Did you listen to the podcast episode that I linked to?

I read the transcript.  It’s a load of crap.

I’m not opposed to having a gender neutral 3rd person singular pronoun.  Just not ‘they.’  I quite like the idea of using the suggested German one of ‘dey,’ pronounced to rhyme with ‘they.’  It’s short, easily remembered, starts with an earlier letter in the alphabet, so it ‘means’ fewer.  The possessive adjective could be ‘deys,’ similar to ‘his,’ and just as shortish as ‘her.’  And the accusative and dative case of ‘dey’ could be ‘deyn,’ to go along with ‘him’ and ‘her.’

There’d be no ambiguity.

‘Alex left the room carrying deys laptop’ instead of ‘Alex left the room carrying their laptop.’  Whose laptop?  Deys laptop, no someone else’s laptop.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #363 on: January 11, 2019, 12:16:49 AM »
I read the transcript.  It’s a load of crap.

What about the 130 citations? Are they all a load of crap too?

Nice that you feel like you can dismiss science when it suits your agenda. Please do not consider my declining to engage with you any further on the subject as anything other than an expression of utter contempt.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #364 on: January 11, 2019, 12:21:33 AM »
I feel so much better now that I have added bf to my very short blocklist.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #365 on: January 11, 2019, 12:42:15 AM »
I feel so much better now that I have added bf to my very short blocklist.

I'm usually very reluctant to add people to Ignore, but... yeah. I'm done trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #366 on: January 11, 2019, 12:56:38 AM »
My list has 5 now.

bachfiend
Furyan5
Pdb
phooey
Unlimited
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #367 on: January 11, 2019, 02:23:22 AM »
I feel so much better now that I have added bf to my very short blocklist.

I'm usually very reluctant to add people to Ignore, but... yeah. I'm done trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

Good.
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #368 on: January 11, 2019, 11:04:44 AM »
I feel so much better now that I have added bf to my very short blocklist.

I'm usually very reluctant to add people to Ignore, but... yeah. I'm done trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

Good.

A couple of quick questions, and then I am bowing out of this discussion as well: What is your idea of how language changes over time?  How are changes in usage and meaning accepted into "standard" language?
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #369 on: January 11, 2019, 02:34:02 PM »
I feel so much better now that I have added bf to my very short blocklist.

I'm usually very reluctant to add people to Ignore, but... yeah. I'm done trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

Good.

A couple of quick questions, and then I am bowing out of this discussion as well: What is your idea of how language changes over time?  How are changes in usage and meaning accepted into "standard" language?

Language changes by becoming more precise.  By becoming clearer.  By coopting words to adopt new meanings while the older ones becoming obsolete.  ‘They’ becoming to mean ‘one and only one,’ as well as ‘two or more, as well as possibly many’ isn’t a case of language becoming clearer and more precise.  It’s a case of an Orwellanism that would have fitted in ‘1984.’

I don’t oppose the adoption of a nongendered 3rd person singular pronoun.   But not ‘they.’  I like the idea from the German of ‘dey/deyn/deys.’

Good that you’re dropping out too.  I’ve wasted too much time on this nonsense.
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Offline Beef Wellington

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #370 on: January 11, 2019, 03:21:33 PM »
"Dey" is pretty close to how a lot of people pronounce "they," not sure it would help anything. A lot of people already know what "they" means in context. I still cringe when I hear someone say that instead of who, as in the phrase "Anyone that needs help, see me after." Every fiber of my being wants to scream "Anyone WHO needs help!" Both usages are correct, however, so that's my problem not theirs. See, I said theirs and I guarantee you all know what I meant.

Also, Science VS really needs to be listened to, not read. Arthwollipot has the right idea here...
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #371 on: January 11, 2019, 03:43:09 PM »
"Dey" is pretty close to how a lot of people pronounce "they," not sure it would help anything. A lot of people already know what "they" means in context. I still cringe when I hear someone say that instead of who, as in the phrase "Anyone that needs help, see me after." Every fiber of my being wants to scream "Anyone WHO needs help!" Both usages are correct, however, so that's my problem not theirs. See, I said theirs and I guarantee you all know what I meant.

Also, Science VS really needs to be listened to, not read. Arthwollipot has the right idea here...

‘Both usages are correct, however, so that’s my problem not theirs.’  That’s completely acceptable - it’s similar to ‘anyone can succeed if they try’ instead of ‘anyone can succeed if he tries.’  ‘Anyone’ isn’t a single identified person, and can represent two or more persons.  Even many and possibly everyone.

If anyone worries that their ‘dey’ (see - I agree that some cases of the ‘singular they’ are acceptable) might be misinterpreted as ‘they’ then pronounce it as ‘doy.’  In German ‘zwei’ (the number 2) is often pronounced as ‘zwo’ to avoid confusion with ‘drei’ (the number 3) if it’s important.  Otherwise context will determine the meaning.

I prefer reading to listening.  I often notice things reading books that I miss listening to the same book as an audiobook (although I do both).
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Offline Beef Wellington

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #372 on: January 11, 2019, 04:08:50 PM »
I prefer reading to listening.  I often notice things reading books that I miss listening to the same book as an audiobook (although I do both).

That's fine, I'm just letting you know that Science VS is a very well produced show, and actually hearing the interviewees share their experiences with their own voices carries more weight than just words on a screen. That's how it is for me, anyway. Also, transcripts can be incorrect. I've sent Skeptoid transcripts to people since the older episodes are no longer free, and I've certainly found differences between the audio and the text. I prefer to take in material the way the author/host/producer/artist etc... intended. The Gimlet crew could have easily written a blog but they chose to present their work as a podcast. If a transcript is all there is, fine. Along that line, I will prefer an audio version of a book but only if the author narrates, as they'll know exactly how it's supposed to sound.

You say you both read and listen to audiobooks, would you be willing to read the transcript and listen to the episode in case you missed something, like a point here or there?
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #373 on: January 11, 2019, 04:22:13 PM »
I prefer reading to listening.  I often notice things reading books that I miss listening to the same book as an audiobook (although I do both).

That's fine, I'm just letting you know that Science VS is a very well produced show, and actually hearing the interviewees share their experiences with their own voices carries more weight than just words on a screen. That's how it is for me, anyway. Also, transcripts can be incorrect. I've sent Skeptoid transcripts to people since the older episodes are no longer free, and I've certainly found differences between the audio and the text. I prefer to take in material the way the author/host/producer/artist etc... intended. The Gimlet crew could have easily written a blog but they chose to present their work as a podcast. If a transcript is all there is, fine. Along that line, I will prefer an audio version of a book but only if the author narrates, as they'll know exactly how it's supposed to sound.

You say you both read and listen to audiobooks, would you be willing to read the transcript and listen to the episode in case you missed something, like a point here or there?

No.  I don’t have the time, even if I don’t waste it watching the rubbish on television.

I don’t know whether the author is the best reader for the author’s books.  I recently listened to Gunther Grass reading his ‘Im Krebsgang,’ and it was slightly irritating (but one of my treasured possessions is his live reading - with audience laughter at the rare comical episodes - of ‘die Blechtrommel’).
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Offline Beef Wellington

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Re: Episode #700
« Reply #374 on: January 11, 2019, 04:50:29 PM »
No.  I don’t have the time, even if I don’t waste it watching the rubbish on television.

Fair enough. Just to reiterate my previous point, you're not going to absorb the info presented in a transcript the same way you will from hearing the episode. One glance at that (horrifically formatted) transcript and I forgot what I was doing. The audio, however, is great. You may be hesitant to call the info presented "a load of crap" if it's actually digestible (reading a play-by-play vs hearing a game, for example). If you've already decided against it, oh well. It wouldn't be very fair to judge a movie if you've only read a script you found in a trash bin.
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