Author Topic: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?  (Read 3069 times)

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Offline Billzbub

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2019, 01:35:38 PM »
The rate at which we are learning about the brain is, in my opinion, about to change.  With the advent of AIs that can sift through big data, I think the rate at which we gain understanding of the brain is in the process of increasing significantly.  I may have to rethink what I posted a few posts ago about our knowledge of the brain being the limiting factor in creating artificial brains.  Maybe our knowledge of the brain and our ability to compute will increase together, and we will really start making significant progress.

I think one of the complications is going to be that the parts of the brain that we don't really need in a brain simulation (the parts that control balance, heartbeat, pain, etc) may be too intertwined with the parts needed for cognition.  We will either have to figure out how to include all the parts by simulating a body in software, or we'll have to figure out how to modify the brain so that it can cogitate without all those other parts.  It would be great if we could just make a bank of neurons available to a specialized AI to help it do computations and find patterns that it otherwise couldn't.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2019, 03:48:38 PM »
The rate at which we are learning about the brain is, in my opinion, about to change.  With the advent of AIs that can sift through big data, I think the rate at which we gain understanding of the brain is in the process of increasing significantly.  I may have to rethink what I posted a few posts ago about our knowledge of the brain being the limiting factor in creating artificial brains.  Maybe our knowledge of the brain and our ability to compute will increase together, and we will really start making significant progress.

I think one of the complications is going to be that the parts of the brain that we don't really need in a brain simulation (the parts that control balance, heartbeat, pain, etc) may be too intertwined with the parts needed for cognition.  We will either have to figure out how to include all the parts by simulating a body in software, or we'll have to figure out how to modify the brain so that it can cogitate without all those other parts.  It would be great if we could just make a bank of neurons available to a specialized AI to help it do computations and find patterns that it otherwise couldn't.

My understanding is that brains need to be embodied, and can not really be considered in isolation from that embodiment. The nature of the body is not important: a car, a human, a network of IOT devices. What matters is that the brain is in constant contact with external events, and adapting to those external inputs.

For creatures like humans, this means a brain that runs a powerful predictive simulation of the physical and social external world, with various self-correcting mechanisms that tend to keep the predictions in line with what actually happens.[1] For a spider? Maybe  there is more value in reacting swiftly? The point is that the type of embodiment dictates what kind of brain functionality is useful to keep the whole system operating.

I'm looking forward to the AIs that are embodied in research laboratories with associated manufacturing capabilities. If one of those is set up to create better computational hardware things will get wild fast.


===
[1]I'm well aware that this is a gross simplification. Go with it for a minute.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2019, 05:46:09 PM »
The rate at which we are learning about the brain is, in my opinion, about to change.  With the advent of AIs that can sift through big data, I think the rate at which we gain understanding of the brain is in the process of increasing significantly.  I may have to rethink what I posted a few posts ago about our knowledge of the brain being the limiting factor in creating artificial brains.  Maybe our knowledge of the brain and our ability to compute will increase together, and we will really start making significant progress.

I think one of the complications is going to be that the parts of the brain that we don't really need in a brain simulation (the parts that control balance, heartbeat, pain, etc) may be too intertwined with the parts needed for cognition.  We will either have to figure out how to include all the parts by simulating a body in software, or we'll have to figure out how to modify the brain so that it can cogitate without all those other parts.  It would be great if we could just make a bank of neurons available to a specialized AI to help it do computations and find patterns that it otherwise couldn't.

My understanding is that brains need to be embodied, and can not really be considered in isolation from that embodiment. The nature of the body is not important: a car, a human, a network of IOT devices. What matters is that the brain is in constant contact with external events, and adapting to those external inputs.

I think embodiment certainly gives you more avenues for learning; you can pick things up or move around them to look at them from different angles or you can interact with them to see what happens. And I think our language is ultimately grounded in reality in a pretty fundamental way (which is why I did my MSc thesis on language grounding). But I do think there may be other ways to general intelligence (although an embodied AI may be more relatable and recognizable to us). Ultimately learning in AIs is just doing really complicated statistics. I think an AI that learned from text or databases could maybe learn enough theory about the world that we might say it "understands" it and that it would feel "intelligent", albeit in a way that would probably be far more foreign than an embodied AI.
What I suspect it definitely needs is stimulation, i.e. some sort of input that it can learn from and reason about. You can be born paralyzed, but you can still learn about the world, and I imagine you can have a rich inner life even if you barely ever actively interact with the rest of the world. But for a hypothetical person who does not and has never possessed any senses, I have a hard time imagining that their mind would be anything but completely alien to the rest of us.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2019, 12:35:14 AM »
The rate at which we are learning about the brain is, in my opinion, about to change.  With the advent of AIs that can sift through big data, I think the rate at which we gain understanding of the brain is in the process of increasing significantly.  I may have to rethink what I posted a few posts ago about our knowledge of the brain being the limiting factor in creating artificial brains.  Maybe our knowledge of the brain and our ability to compute will increase together, and we will really start making significant progress.

I think one of the complications is going to be that the parts of the brain that we don't really need in a brain simulation (the parts that control balance, heartbeat, pain, etc) may be too intertwined with the parts needed for cognition.  We will either have to figure out how to include all the parts by simulating a body in software, or we'll have to figure out how to modify the brain so that it can cogitate without all those other parts.  It would be great if we could just make a bank of neurons available to a specialized AI to help it do computations and find patterns that it otherwise couldn't.

My understanding is that brains need to be embodied, and can not really be considered in isolation from that embodiment. The nature of the body is not important: a car, a human, a network of IOT devices. What matters is that the brain is in constant contact with external events, and adapting to those external inputs.

I think embodiment certainly gives you more avenues for learning; you can pick things up or move around them to look at them from different angles or you can interact with them to see what happens. And I think our language is ultimately grounded in reality in a pretty fundamental way (which is why I did my MSc thesis on language grounding). But I do think there may be other ways to general intelligence (although an embodied AI may be more relatable and recognizable to us). Ultimately learning in AIs is just doing really complicated statistics. I think an AI that learned from text or databases could maybe learn enough theory about the world that we might say it "understands" it and that it would feel "intelligent", albeit in a way that would probably be far more foreign than an embodied AI.
What I suspect it definitely needs is stimulation, i.e. some sort of input that it can learn from and reason about. You can be born paralyzed, but you can still learn about the world, and I imagine you can have a rich inner life even if you barely ever actively interact with the rest of the world. But for a hypothetical person who does not and has never possessed any senses, I have a hard time imagining that their mind would be anything but completely alien to the rest of us.

Embodiment may be broader than you're thinking. Senses are just intermediation between the brain and the 'real' world. There are senses as we think of them and then there are *sensors* that can interact and report on the world in ways that we can not even imagine.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2019, 08:30:34 AM »
Well usually when we talk about embodied cognition in AI, we're talking about an AI (typically a mobile one, or at least one with multiple sensory modalities like vision or sound) that is sensing the world directly in some way that goes beyond someone typing a question into a keyboard and interacting with databases or the web.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2019, 09:35:37 AM »
Well stated. The critical factor is the capacity to directly interact with the real world - that is, the sense must be able to alter the behaviour of the system. Put another way, the system uses the inputs from its senses to alter its behaviour.

In that context, a text I/O interface could be a sense - but not if it is just dumping out data.
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: Will A.I replace most if not all of our jobs?
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2019, 11:45:02 AM »
The reason I brought up the whole embodiment thing is just to point out that attempting to simulate and entire mammalian brain will either require embodiment in said mammal, or require the modification of the brain to not require it.  The first will be super creepy and I can't wait to see it happen, and the second will be...I don't know.  Is it easier or harder to just create part of a brain that can be used by someone or something else?  I look forward to seeing how this pans out.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

 

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