Author Topic: Episode #702  (Read 1938 times)

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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2018, 06:18:18 PM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

I assume that is in response to my post. I am not a germaphobe.

I do wash my hands multiple times a day (not just after every toilet visit) (20x is not unusual) , but I do work in a mine and my hands get covered with grease, oil, dirt, chemicals (xanthates, sulphates, sulphides, sodium hydroxide, arsenic etc) even when being careful and wearing gloves. Which, I assure you, I double glove and wear every possible PPE when handling sodium hydroxide  ;).

But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2018, 06:27:43 PM »
But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.
I remember trying to carefully cycle the cloth towel in such a way to avoid that gross last person. It wasn't all that unusual for the towels to be at the end of the roll leaving one with only the ugliest toweling they ever did see.


Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2018, 07:19:12 PM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

I assume that is in response to my post. I am not a germaphobe.

I do wash my hands multiple times a day (not just after every toilet visit) (20x is not unusual) , but I do work in a mine and my hands get covered with grease, oil, dirt, chemicals (xanthates, sulphates, sulphides, sodium hydroxide, arsenic etc) even when being careful and wearing gloves. Which, I assure you, I double glove and wear every possible PPE when handling sodium hydroxide  ;).

But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.

Nope. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was not responding to you, I was just commenting on how afraid some people are of germs. My step-mother had a full-on germ phobia. Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.
Daniel
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2018, 07:54:54 PM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

I assume that is in response to my post. I am not a germaphobe.

I do wash my hands multiple times a day (not just after every toilet visit) (20x is not unusual) , but I do work in a mine and my hands get covered with grease, oil, dirt, chemicals (xanthates, sulphates, sulphides, sodium hydroxide, arsenic etc) even when being careful and wearing gloves. Which, I assure you, I double glove and wear every possible PPE when handling sodium hydroxide  ;).

But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.

Nope. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was not responding to you, I was just commenting on how afraid some people are of germs. My step-mother had a full-on germ phobia. Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Perhaps we ought to become more germophobic, considering the increasing incidence of antibiotic resistant bacteria?  In the preantibiotic era, many infections were rapidly fatal.  The case of Calvin Coolidge jnr who died of a Staph aureus infection from a simple blistered foot in 1924 springs to mind.  Being the son of a President, in good previous physical health and presumably receiving the best possible medical care didn’t save him, and he died in a week.

When penicillin was introduced, it seemed like a miracle.  Bacteriologists were talking about antibiotics eradicating all bacterial infections.  Evolution’s production of multiantibiotic bacteria has just demonstrated that bacteria are our true masters.
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Online swan

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2018, 07:56:18 PM »
Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Once I joked about having neutrinophobia and one person seemed rather distressed after I explained what neutrinos can do and that there's no escaping them. Oops.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2018, 09:25:35 PM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

I assume that is in response to my post. I am not a germaphobe.

I do wash my hands multiple times a day (not just after every toilet visit) (20x is not unusual) , but I do work in a mine and my hands get covered with grease, oil, dirt, chemicals (xanthates, sulphates, sulphides, sodium hydroxide, arsenic etc) even when being careful and wearing gloves. Which, I assure you, I double glove and wear every possible PPE when handling sodium hydroxide  ;).

But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.

Nope. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was not responding to you, I was just commenting on how afraid some people are of germs. My step-mother had a full-on germ phobia. Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Perhaps we ought to become more germophobic, considering the increasing incidence of antibiotic resistant bacteria?  In the preantibiotic era, many infections were rapidly fatal.  The case of Calvin Coolidge jnr who died of a Staph aureus infection from a simple blistered foot in 1924 springs to mind.  Being the son of a President, in good previous physical health and presumably receiving the best possible medical care didn’t save him, and he died in a week.

When penicillin was introduced, it seemed like a miracle.  Bacteriologists were talking about antibiotics eradicating all bacterial infections.  Evolution’s production of multiantibiotic bacteria has just demonstrated that bacteria are our true masters.

The thing about infectious diseases is that we're pretty well immune to 999,999 out of 1,000,000 of them. And even that 1 that's bad for us, we can get exposed to them all day long, and be fine.  It's only when they can get past our first line defenses (skin, saliva) that they potentially become a problem. But even the tiny percent of the one in a million bugs (bacteria/viruses) that actually get past our first line have to deal with the immune system and require antibiotics. And it's only a few of those that are becoming anti-biotic resistant. But, still, that minuscule fraction of all infectious organisms could potentially wreak havoc.  The good news is that they're not common is restaurants, bathrooms, or cloth towel rolls. You're more likely to catch those bugs in a hospital, or near a agricultural facility that uses antibiotics regularly.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2018, 11:50:28 PM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

I assume that is in response to my post. I am not a germaphobe.

I do wash my hands multiple times a day (not just after every toilet visit) (20x is not unusual) , but I do work in a mine and my hands get covered with grease, oil, dirt, chemicals (xanthates, sulphates, sulphides, sodium hydroxide, arsenic etc) even when being careful and wearing gloves. Which, I assure you, I double glove and wear every possible PPE when handling sodium hydroxide  ;).

But my problem with the cloth towel rolls is that if the last person was sloppy with their arse wiping (young children especially), there could potentially be traces of faeces directly on that towel.

I realise the risk of getting diseases from the towel is very low, but even the gross out factor of drying my hands on other peoples e-coli is enough for me to choose hand towel or hot air.

Nope. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was not responding to you, I was just commenting on how afraid some people are of germs. My step-mother had a full-on germ phobia. Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Perhaps we ought to become more germophobic, considering the increasing incidence of antibiotic resistant bacteria?  In the preantibiotic era, many infections were rapidly fatal.  The case of Calvin Coolidge jnr who died of a Staph aureus infection from a simple blistered foot in 1924 springs to mind.  Being the son of a President, in good previous physical health and presumably receiving the best possible medical care didn’t save him, and he died in a week.

When penicillin was introduced, it seemed like a miracle.  Bacteriologists were talking about antibiotics eradicating all bacterial infections.  Evolution’s production of multiantibiotic bacteria has just demonstrated that bacteria are our true masters.

The thing about infectious diseases is that we're pretty well immune to 999,999 out of 1,000,000 of them. And even that 1 that's bad for us, we can get exposed to them all day long, and be fine.  It's only when they can get past our first line defenses (skin, saliva) that they potentially become a problem. But even the tiny percent of the one in a million bugs (bacteria/viruses) that actually get past our first line have to deal with the immune system and require antibiotics. And it's only a few of those that are becoming anti-biotic resistant. But, still, that minuscule fraction of all infectious organisms could potentially wreak havoc.  The good news is that they're not common is restaurants, bathrooms, or cloth towel rolls. You're more likely to catch those bugs in a hospital, or near a agricultural facility that uses antibiotics regularly.

Your references?  Or did you just suck your comment out of the end of your thumb?
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
Sad, really, when someone is terrified of something that cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Once I joked about having neutrinophobia and one person seemed rather distressed after I explained what neutrinos can do and that there's no escaping them. Oops.

Something like 65 billion neutrinos pass through your body every second, but interactions are so rare that I could not find a figure for how many hit anothing in your body, rather than just passing through you. According to this site, they have so little mass, that all the neutrinos that have ever passed through anyone who has ever lived add up to 0.15 of a gram. That’s not the ones that have interacted. It’s the ones that have just passed through anybody for as long as there’ve been people. (The article does not state, as far as I skimmed through it, what cut-off they used between “people” and proto-people.)
Daniel
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Online swan

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2018, 04:31:02 PM »
Something like 65 billion neutrinos pass through your body every second, but interactions are so rare that I could not find a figure for how many hit anothing in your body, rather than just passing through you. According to this site, they have so little mass, that all the neutrinos that have ever passed through anyone who has ever lived add up to 0.15 of a gram. That’s not the ones that have interacted. It’s the ones that have just passed through anybody for as long as there’ve been people. (The article does not state, as far as I skimmed through it, what cut-off they used between “people” and proto-people.)

I sort-of remember reading and/or calculating that a neutrino or antineutrino may change an atom between 7 and 13 times during an average lifespan. Even though that could mess with a chemical bond or two, our bodies easily deal with a lot worse on a daily basis. I mean, it's not impossible that one of these interactions could cause a chain reaction that eventually resulted in death, but most of us will still probably be killed by automobiles or heart disease. (… and maybe even vampires. ;) )

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2018, 08:08:04 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2019, 11:14:55 AM »
Germs are like sharks or grizzly bears: people are far more afraid of them than is reasonable. Germs are everywhere and some of them can kill you, but the vast majority won’t hurt you. You can’t kill them all, and if you could kill them all (in the case of germs, maybe not bears or sharks) doing so would probably kill you. It is important to exercise reasonable caution, and some people, such as doctors who deal with sick people a lot, or naturalists living among populations of bears or sharks, need to be very aware and respectful, but most of us just don’t have to be as obsessive about them as many of us are. Your kitchen counter-top is probably just as germ-infested as your toilet seat, and money has more germs on it than the faucets of a third-world public restroom. Wash your hands but don’t let the fear of germs rule your life. Most of them are your friends.

Good point, Daniel. Humans evolved along with germs, they are part of how our bodies function.

As for bears, with the exception of polar bears, most bears will usually do their utmost to avoid humans. The same goes for wolves, btw.
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Online The Latinist

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2019, 11:30:26 AM »
The thing about infectious diseases is that we're pretty well immune to 999,999 out of 1,000,000 of them.

I should think that by definition a thing which cannot cause us harm cannot be an infectious disease.  Do you perhaps mean that we are immune to most microorganisms and viruses?
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2019, 11:37:49 AM »
Oy, vey.  Does everything have to be a dissertation defense.  Can't carb get away with a generalization in what amounts a casual conversation?  Its pretty clear, he's just saying the world isn't as dangerous and full of disease as some folks seam to think.  Which seems obviously true given how much questionably useful handsanitizer exists.

A thing can be an infectious disease for creatures other than humans.  I'd suspect most infectious diseases are quite harmless to humans actually.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:42:08 AM by Ah.hell »

Online The Latinist

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Re: Episode #702
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2019, 01:37:47 PM »
Its pretty clear, he's just saying the world isn't as dangerous and full of disease as some folks seam to think.

If that is what he wishes to say, then let him say that rather than making up statistics.  I'm not inclined to give him any more latitude to play fast and loose with the truth than he already takes for himself.

Quote
A thing can be an infectious disease for creatures other than humans.  I'd suspect most infectious diseases are quite harmless to humans actually.

I do not think that is a reasonable interpretation of his words.
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