Author Topic: The morality of Thanos  (Read 5095 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2018, 07:43:06 PM »
though we only saw intellegent life (well, people & Guardians of the Galaxy) wiped out... I certainly don't recall seeing any trees vanishing for instance.

"I am Groot"  :(

In the context of the comic-book world of the movie, Groot is a person. I.e., a sentient being with volition who behaves as a person. And although we cannot understand his language, the raccoon person can, so he clearly communicates his thoughts.

Groot does not disprove the hypothesis that Thanos only kills “people” in the wider sense of the fantasy world in which the movie takes place.

Thanos only kills people, and he does so entirely at random except for the relatively small number he kills to obtain the power to carry out his mission.
Daniel
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2018, 08:57:16 PM »
though we only saw intellegent life (well, people & Guardians of the Galaxy) wiped out... I certainly don't recall seeing any trees vanishing for instance.

"I am Groot"  :(

In the context of the comic-book world of the movie, Groot is a person. I.e., a sentient being with volition who behaves as a person. And although we cannot understand his language, the raccoon person can, so he clearly communicates his thoughts.

Groot does not disprove the hypothesis that Thanos only kills “people” in the wider sense of the fantasy world in which the movie takes place.

Thanos only kills people, and he does so entirely at random except for the relatively small number he kills to obtain the power to carry out his mission.

I was going for comedic effect. Not literalism  ;)

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2019, 05:19:29 PM »
Aquaman - 6.5/10

I generally had fun with this movie, but damn was it overly long.  They could have easily done away with the final, over-the-top battle IMO.  Also, the love story left a LOT to be desired as they really had no chemistry and I didn't feel their relationship at all.  All told though, it was a good time with no horrific issues distracting me from it like so many other DCEU films.  I'd probably rank it number 2 behind Wonder Woman.
I definitely prefer Wonder Woman. But I feel like Aquaman is a more even movie?
Wonder Woman kind of takes a hard left turn at the end with a really stupid finale and very lazy portrayal of WW1 Germans.
If Im separating my feelings I kind of have to say Aquaman might be better structurally?
"You kill Ares, you stop the war." And the next war? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? 
Comic book solutions.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Harry Black

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2019, 05:59:30 PM »
Aquaman - 6.5/10

I generally had fun with this movie, but damn was it overly long.  They could have easily done away with the final, over-the-top battle IMO.  Also, the love story left a LOT to be desired as they really had no chemistry and I didn't feel their relationship at all.  All told though, it was a good time with no horrific issues distracting me from it like so many other DCEU films.  I'd probably rank it number 2 behind Wonder Woman.
I definitely prefer Wonder Woman. But I feel like Aquaman is a more even movie?
Wonder Woman kind of takes a hard left turn at the end with a really stupid finale and very lazy portrayal of WW1 Germans.
If Im separating my feelings I kind of have to say Aquaman might be better structurally?
"You kill Ares, you stop the war." And the next war? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? 
Comic book solutions.
Even most comic books are not that simplistic.

It really seemed that we were being set up for the idea that it was not so simple, but I suspect with how rushed the ending seemed, there may have been some rewrites and studio notes.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2019, 06:55:11 PM »
Aquaman - 6.5/10

I generally had fun with this movie, but damn was it overly long.  They could have easily done away with the final, over-the-top battle IMO.  Also, the love story left a LOT to be desired as they really had no chemistry and I didn't feel their relationship at all.  All told though, it was a good time with no horrific issues distracting me from it like so many other DCEU films.  I'd probably rank it number 2 behind Wonder Woman.
I definitely prefer Wonder Woman. But I feel like Aquaman is a more even movie?
Wonder Woman kind of takes a hard left turn at the end with a really stupid finale and very lazy portrayal of WW1 Germans.
If Im separating my feelings I kind of have to say Aquaman might be better structurally?
"You kill Ares, you stop the war." And the next war? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? 
Comic book solutions.

In the mythology of the movie, wars happen because of Ares. The problem with setting the movie in historical reality is that in hindsight we know that wars kept happening. Wonder Woman is a great character, but her victory over Ares rings hollow since we know that her underlying purpose failed.

Perhaps a better ending would have been that Ares was never involved at all, and Wonder Woman realizes that wars are started by people, motivated by greed for power, land, or wealth, and that she is needed, not to kill a god, but to interfere in the affairs of the human world.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline PANTS!

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2019, 07:36:32 PM »
I was distinctly under the impression that Ares out and out stated that he did not start wars anymore.  He just supervised and reveled in them.  I mean he was trying to end WWI in the movie.  All he cared about was the weapons and the capacity for distruction, he certainly didn't want the war to consume all humanity.
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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2019, 07:42:21 PM »
I was distinctly under the impression that Ares out and out stated that he did not start wars anymore.  He just supervised and reveled in them.  I mean he was trying to end WWI in the movie.  All he cared about was the weapons and the capacity for destruction, he certainly didn't want the war to consume all humanity.
I took his stance on the Armistice to be a fallacious position.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2019, 09:38:57 PM »
Ares was pretty clear that he did want to wipe out all humanity for reasons similiar to those expressed by Daniel. As with the "baddies" in Aquaman, Black Panther, and Captain Americal: Civil War, I found myself hard pressed to disagree with their logic. The underlying moral position yes, but given that belief? They were being reasonable.
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Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2019, 05:13:36 AM »
The bad guys in Civil War blamed the Avengers for all that happened in the world. The villain just blamed them for the loss of his family.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2019, 09:12:04 AM »
Aquaman - 6.5/10

I generally had fun with this movie, but damn was it overly long.  They could have easily done away with the final, over-the-top battle IMO.  Also, the love story left a LOT to be desired as they really had no chemistry and I didn't feel their relationship at all.  All told though, it was a good time with no horrific issues distracting me from it like so many other DCEU films.  I'd probably rank it number 2 behind Wonder Woman.
I definitely prefer Wonder Woman. But I feel like Aquaman is a more even movie?
Wonder Woman kind of takes a hard left turn at the end with a really stupid finale and very lazy portrayal of WW1 Germans.
If Im separating my feelings I kind of have to say Aquaman might be better structurally?
"You kill Ares, you stop the war." And the next war? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? And the one after that? 
Comic book solutions.

In the mythology of the movie, wars happen because of Ares. The problem with setting the movie in historical reality is that in hindsight we know that wars kept happening. Wonder Woman is a great character, but her victory over Ares rings hollow since we know that her underlying purpose failed.

Perhaps a better ending would have been that Ares was never involved at all, and Wonder Woman realizes that wars are started by people, motivated by greed for power, land, or wealth, and that she is needed, not to kill a god, but to interfere in the affairs of the human world.
But! She was the God Killer, not the Clemenceau Killer.

Yes. And it would have been a better movie if that bit had been left out. Leave out all the god crap. Have her be an ordinary child who gains superpowers like any other comic-book superhero, by some ridiculous accident.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2019, 09:18:51 AM »
Ares was pretty clear that he did want to wipe out all humanity for reasons similiar to those expressed by Daniel. As with the "baddies" in Aquaman, Black Panther, and Captain Americal: Civil War, I found myself hard pressed to disagree with their logic. The underlying moral position yes, but given that belief? They were being reasonable.

A slight correction: I do not want to “wipe out” humanity. I just want us to stop breeding so that we fade away peacefully. I do not want to kill anybody, and I strongly oppose all violence. The most I would do if I had Thanos’s power would be to cause everybody’s reproductive systems to stop producing eggs and sperms.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline swan

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2019, 09:48:16 AM »
A slight correction: I do not want to “wipe out” humanity. I just want us to stop breeding so that we fade away peacefully. I do not want to kill anybody, and I strongly oppose all violence. The most I would do if I had Thanos’s power would be to cause everybody’s reproductive systems to stop producing eggs and sperms.

So basically Antinatalism then? That would be an intriguing version of "The Great Filter" - a whole society basically saying, “You know, we're all just a bunch of assholes. Let's build robots that we can have sex with now so we don't reproduce, and they can also take care of us when we're old until we're all gone.” (Probably the smartest, easiest way for the robots to eliminate us. ;) ) Maybe that was the true fate of "The Makers" in the Star Trek (TOS) episode "I, Mudd."

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2019, 02:30:15 PM »
A slight correction: I do not want to “wipe out” humanity. I just want us to stop breeding so that we fade away peacefully. I do not want to kill anybody, and I strongly oppose all violence. The most I would do if I had Thanos’s power would be to cause everybody’s reproductive systems to stop producing eggs and sperms.

So basically Antinatalism then? That would be an intriguing version of "The Great Filter" - a whole society basically saying, “You know, we're all just a bunch of assholes. Let's build robots that we can have sex with now so we don't reproduce, and they can also take care of us when we're old until we're all gone.” (Probably the smartest, easiest way for the robots to eliminate us. ;) ) Maybe that was the true fate of "The Makers" in the Star Trek (TOS) episode "I, Mudd."

Not sure where robots come in to all of this. Sexbots today are awfully rudimentary, basically a RealDoll with a Siri clone built in. Birth control is a real thing. Then you can have all the sex you want with real people, subject only to mutual agreement, without making more people.

The only thing “special” about the human race is that we are single-handedly causing the worst mass extinction in Earth’s history, and doing our best to cause our own extinction. All I’m saying is that we should agree to fade away gently before we destroy the environment for everybody else.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Harry Black

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2019, 05:09:01 PM »
Ares was pretty clear that he did want to wipe out all humanity for reasons similiar to those expressed by Daniel. As with the "baddies" in Aquaman, Black Panther, and Captain Americal: Civil War, I found myself hard pressed to disagree with their logic. The underlying moral position yes, but given that belief? They were being reasonable.

A slight correction: I do not want to “wipe out” humanity. I just want us to stop breeding so that we fade away peacefully. I do not want to kill anybody, and I strongly oppose all violence. The most I would do if I had Thanos’s power would be to cause everybody’s reproductive systems to stop producing eggs and sperms.
So just some mild genocide then?

Offline brilligtove

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2019, 05:14:47 PM »
Daniel, sorry I misrepresented your position. I implied that you want the violent end of humanity. I know that's not the case - you want a quiet end. Sloppy writing on my part.
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