Author Topic: The morality of Thanos  (Read 7665 times)

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Offline brilligtove

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2019, 11:43:50 PM »
Thanos' point of view (from the movie) and Daniel's point of view (above) are not identical - but they sure are close.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2019, 04:19:46 PM »
You did not merely advocate an end to human reproduction.  You said that you would forcibly sterilize the entire human race. Those are not the same thing.  Do you wish now to retract that statement?

If I had the magical power, I would halt human reproduction. I would not use force on anyone. I think you will say I’m using force if I magically cause people to become infertile, but I don’t see it that way.

Maybe the underlying difference in our views is that I do not regard the human race as in any way special or entitled, and I view humanity, in its preent state, as a cancer that will inevitably destroy its host. I know a lot of folks here believe that we are so special that we must continue our species, but I see us as just another animal that evolved and will eventually disappear, with the difference that we are more destructive, to more different organisms, than any parasite or disease that has ever existed.

There are other things I’d do that would also be unpopular if I had magical powers. But you can all rest easy. Magic does not exist, so my ideas will never be implemented.
Daniel
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Offline wastrel

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2019, 05:37:03 PM »
You are literally saying that if you had the power, you would inflict genocide on the human race.

Legal definition of genocide
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
(1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part1
; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Online Harry Black

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2019, 06:49:50 PM »
Daniel, if you think this planet and life on it wont be here long after we are gone, I think you are delusional.
You are right, we aren't special, and neither is anything else. Something will fill our gap.
We are no more a cancer than anything else in the scheme of things, since you seem determined to frame the debate at that scale.
Outside of that scale, we should and could absolutely limit our impact while ensuring our survival.

Offline Captain Video

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2019, 08:30:07 PM »
I call hate speech and double down on my earlier statements of self hatred. I'm not offended though, just filled with pity that someone could feel that negative about their own race.

I'm not agreeing with Harry either. I'm special. The human race is special, there is no other animal out there that we know of that can do what we do, technology, culture, complex language, and NY pizza, just to name a few, we are at the top of the natural food chain.

this is for you Daniel



« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 08:36:40 PM by Captain Video »
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2019, 10:08:10 AM »
If I had the magical power, I would halt human reproduction. I would not use force on anyone. I think you will say I’m using force if I magically cause people to become infertile, but I don’t see it that way.

You are saying that you would use your personal power to impose your will upon 7 billion people and strip their bodies of their natural functions and them of their personal choice. I can think of few things more forceful, coercive or violent than that.

Quote
Maybe the underlying difference in our views is that I do not regard the human race as in any way special or entitled, and I view humanity, in its present state, as a cancer that will inevitably destroy its host. I know a lot of folks here believe that we are so special that we must continue our species, but I see us as just another animal that evolved and will eventually disappear, with the difference that we are more destructive, to more different organisms, than any parasite or disease that has ever existed.

Indeed, we appear to have different view of the value of intelligent life, but I do not think that is the fundamental difference between our positions. It seems from what you have said that you would not murder the entirety of humanity despite your misanthropy, a fact in keeping with what I believe are your previous positions on non-violence. I therefore think that the difference between us is better characterized as a disagreement about what constitutes force and violence.

Quote
There are other things I’d do that would also be unpopular if I had magical powers. But you can all rest easy. Magic does not exist, so my ideas will never be implemented.

I will not rest easy at all because I find the desire to commit genocide or other heinous crimes shocking and disturbing in an acquaintance even when not coupled with the ability or strength of will to do so, just as I would not rest easy knowing that the only thing keeping a friend from rape and murder is a fear of getting caught.

ETA:

I wonder if there is a difference in empathy and imagination involved. I know that you do not value your ability to reproduce, but can you contemplate how you would feel if magically deprived of an ability you do value? Let's say you were stripped of the ability to speak or hear? Would you feel less violated because your vocal cords and auditory ossicles were removed magically rather than surgically?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 10:25:28 AM by The Latinist »
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2019, 12:14:21 PM »
If I were psychic king, I'd move us into several space stations.  Turn earth into a nature preserve.

Much more humane than 'all humans dead with 100 years.' 
... in war the screams are loud and harsh and in peace the wail is so drawn-out we tell ourselves we hear nothing.

Offline 2397

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2019, 01:47:45 PM »
I'd like to depopulate a couple of continents, but I don't see us building space stations that will be comfortable to live on in the next couple of centuries.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2019, 09:24:39 AM »
Coming from people who think it’s perfectly okay to kill untolled billions of animals every year just to turn them into unhealthy food, squandering limited resources in the process, I am okay with folks thinking I’m a bad person. I actually agree with you that I’m a bad person, though not for the same reasons you do. A good person would give away to the poor all the income and/or property that he or she does not need for basic health and survival. I spend far more on my own enjoyment than I would need to survive. So we all agree that I’m a bad person, though for different reasons. And I’m okay with this. As a cynic and a misanthrope, I’m very happily spending my last few years having as much fun as I can, which at present amounts to paddling nearly every morning on the warm waters of this island paradise.

I’m reminded of a fellow I met in prison. He was convicted of possession of some large amount of marijuana with intent to sell. He told me that the pot that was presented as evidence in his case was not his. It was planted by the cops. However, he confided in me that he was actually selling pot. Just not that particular pot. They could not find his pot, so they planted some. He felt this was fair since he was actually guilty of selling pot. You judge me to be a bad person. Fair enough: I am. That we disagree on the reason(s) is not a problem for me.

And FWIW, I do not hate myself for being a bad person. I just accept it as who I am.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline The Latinist

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2019, 09:47:24 AM »
I do not believe that I said you were a bad person. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I would actually be very interested in your answers to the questions in my previous post, if you’re willing to answer them.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2019, 02:24:52 PM »
This thread is the true Infinity War.

Offline PANTS!

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2019, 06:16:10 PM »
This thread is the true Infinity War.

Oh, snap!
Now where I come from
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2019, 07:10:11 PM »
Snap? Shit.

I don't want to go....
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline PANTS!

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2019, 07:33:51 PM »
Dr. Zaeus?  I don't feel so good.
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be
-Uptown, Prince 👉

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The morality of Thanos
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2019, 10:29:38 AM »
I do not believe that I said you were a bad person. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I would actually be very interested in your answers to the questions in my previous post, if you’re willing to answer them.

I guess I misread your comments, then. I suppose words like “monstrous” and “genocide” gave me the impression that the consensus here was that I was a bad person, a notion I do agree with for the reasons above. But I will try to answer your questions. Note that as I am using a tablet rather than a computer it’s harder to format my posts. I’ll start a new post and do my best.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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