Author Topic: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?  (Read 916 times)

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Offline Bill K

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2019, 01:04:46 AM »
I don't believe pledges will pressure anyone enough to make actual change. Maybe some obscure websites can be taken down in the end. I dunno. I'm reminded of the pledges made to not ejaculate for a month in support of testicular cancer (or some other disease). I'm unsure their unspent semen cured cancer, unfortunately, and I also think many of them went back on their pledge during that month.
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Offline random poet

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2019, 02:02:46 AM »
HMMM, did not expect this response.

Share truth
Verify: fact-check information to confirm it is true before accepting and sharing it
-- It's easy to account for. "I fact checked this with x"
Balance: share the whole truth, even if some aspects do not support my opinion
--May not be well suited to Twitter or sound bites, but certainly works with essays and long posts or comments

Cite: share my sources so that others can verify my information
--Accountable and verifiable.

Clarify: distinguish between my opinion and the facts
--Accountable and verifiable.

Honor truth
Acknowledge: acknowledge when others share true information, even when we disagree otherwise
--Accountable and verifiable.

Reevaluate: reevaluate if my information is challenged, retract it if I cannot verify it

Defend: defend others when they come under attack for sharing true information, even when we disagree otherwise
Align: align my opinions and my actions with true information

Encourage truth
Fix: ask people to retract information that reliable sources have disproved even if they are my allies
--Accountable and verifiable.

Educate: compassionately inform those around me to stop using unreliable sources even if these sources support my opinion
--Accountable and verifiable.

Defer: recognize the opinions of experts as more likely to be accurate when the facts are disputed
--Accountable and verifiable.

Celebrate: celebrate those who retract incorrect statements and update their beliefs toward the truth

Some of the critiques of this concept here just don't seem to apply.
I'm not sure why you think re-stating the same stuff again is more convincing. You have not addressed any of the criticism above.

Because I was under the impression that some of the criticism above was referring to an entirely different pledge.

Just want to make sure we're all on the same topic.
Well, you were wrong, because that's ridiculous.

Glad that's all cleared up.
Aujourd'hui j'ai vu un facteur joyeux.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2019, 11:33:46 AM »
I think yes
I like but the bits about civility and compassion are bound to stick in certain craws.

The word civility is not in the pledge, and compassion is only used to describe how to educate.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 11:49:24 AM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2019, 11:48:24 AM »
There is too much junk in those statements. Meaningless promises of truthiness that only honest people would respect anyway.

They go far beyond that. They encourage accountability, citations, etc.

Quote

Hypocritical cries for civility when it's unwarranted and counterproductive.

Where are you reading that into the pledge, and what's hypocritical about civility per se?
Quote

Problematic admonishment to use "balance" when there is often no such thing (when one side is lying about the science being real or not — fighting this is the whole point of skepticism).

This is ridiculous and one of the reasons why I posted the text of the pledge itself, because it has nothing to do with the pledge.

Recognizing that something is true is not false balance.

Quote
The question of verification is better left to experts; the general public trying to "verify" everything is the very thing leading to pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, because they can't tell which sources are legitimate. Etc.

So are you agreeing that one should defer to the experts in a field or disagreeing?

Either way, no, fact checking is not something to be left to the experts.

Quote

(And apparently the quest for truth is too important for punctuation?)

Their punctuation is fine, another reason I posted the full text.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline random poet

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2019, 11:59:04 AM »
OK, you were right, we're reading a different pledge. Weird, because there's only that one link in your post. Did you link something else by mistake?
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2019, 12:19:11 PM »
OK, you were right, we're reading a different pledge. Weird, because there's only that one link in your post. Did you link something else by mistake?


That is weird. I haven't edited the OP at all.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online daniel1948

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2019, 07:25:14 PM »
My quarrel is not with the content of the pledge. Basically it sounds like good practice. My quarrel is with the whole idea of pledges. People can pledge all they like, but they’re not going to change just because they pledged, and the worst offenders will be the most vocal in taking the pledge.

Advocate for good behavior. Asking people to pledge good behavior is, IMO, a waste of time and just gives bad people an opportunity to toot their own horn while changing nothing in their behavior.
Daniel
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Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2019, 07:28:54 PM »
Yeah pledges gross me out too.  "Oh man, I was going to be allegiant to this flag, but then I remembered that I already pledged my allegiance to that other flag"
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Re: Should Skeptics Take the Pledge?
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2019, 10:42:13 PM »
OK, you were right, we're reading a different pledge. Weird, because there's only that one link in your post. Did you link something else by mistake?


That is weird. I haven't edited the OP at all.

Probably came from this section at the top of the page:

Quote
Frustrated by misinformation and incivility in public discourse?
Take the Pro-Truth Pledge to encourage politicians – and everyone else – to commit to truth-oriented behaviors and protect facts and civility. Join 9264 signers, 102 organizations, 643 government officials, and 966 public figures and take the pledge, demand that your elected representatives do so, and encourage your friends to take it!
It's always more complicated than that.

 

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