Author Topic: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick  (Read 717 times)

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Offline niallflinn

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Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« on: January 18, 2019, 09:25:27 PM »
Hi, I'm new here!

I'm a born and bred sceptic (British, please forgive spelling), and I've been listening to/reading a lot of Tim Ferriss related material recently about nutrition and related matters. Rhonda Patrick has been on his podcast at least once or twice and, it turns out, has her own. There's a lot of talk of fasting, calorie restriction, and other dietary interventions, together with information about exercise, hyperthermic treatments, and so on. It's all very "sciency", and many of the people she interviews appear to be genuine academics doing genuine research. And yet... there's a whiff of bullshit. Ferriss is the same. I find all this stuff really interesting because it's not like, say homeopathy, which is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. This is more like: there's something there in the basic science, but too many people are jumping to too many conclusions too early. I'm really interested in opinions about this area. For me it's much more intriguing than calling out the purveyors of out and out quackery, because it's much closer to actual research, and some of this stuff may well be proven to be efficacious by real trials over the next few years.


Online Harry Black

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2019, 07:21:07 AM »
I think you nailed it.
Ferriss is a prototypical grifter. His book, The 4 Hour Body was full of unfalsifiable claims and research that was overextrapolated as well as the fact that it was all pointless n=1 stuff that he tried to make seem exciting with his 'human guinea pig' thing.
Even when you look at the records he does actually hold, its just him finding technical loopholes for the titles, not the performance and so, while cute, are pointless.
So I would say there is nothing of value to be gained from Ferriss and probably anyone who would associate with him. Further more I do think there is a small harm in consuming his bullshit regularly because you can take it with all the salt you like, but some woo can still seep in and take hold at a gut level which you need to actively counteract with critical thinking.
The sad thing is that it just takes a long time for science to get from the lab to the plate and I think its best to focus on what we do know as opposed to what might be true unless we are on some cutting edge where such miniscule benefits can translate to cash.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 01:48:23 AM »
I tried intermittent fasting for a few weeks, on the premise that I could become accustomed to having an empty stomach for many hours at a time and thereby reduce my portion size at meals. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way for me. What I ended up doing is overeating at the end of the fast, and binge eating snack foods on the days when I wasn't fasting.

Overall, I've found that eating more meals with smaller portions seems to work out best for me.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 12:22:22 PM »
Far too much research by credible labs showing positive physical results with intermittent fasting, circadian rhythm, and really, fasting in general to disregard as woo.  No one on the Patric show (fairly limited compared to Ferriss) is not a credible individual with regards to human physiology. 

I keep a 15-16 hour fasting period and importantly try to get my greatest physical activity in this period (as well as sleeping!). Seems to work a treat.  I also try to keep a LCHF diet and minimise consuming what I consider deleterious food.  Not extreme in my personal estimation but very different to what I see from people in the rest of the world.


 
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 01:02:33 PM »
My only disagreement with Harry is that I'm not convinced Ferriss is just a grifter, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believes his own schtick.  Not that that would change my advice.  I'm highly skeptical of Ferriss and would not recommend you follow his advice. 

I think there are a lot of claims currently about various forms of fasting, not all are implausible.  I'm less skeptical of that than Ferris generally. 

I am highly skeptical of the claims regarding thermic treatment. 

.....there's something there in the basic science, but too many people are jumping to too many conclusions too early.....
That's basically 90% of BS diet advice, wild extrapolation based on preliminary evidence and study.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 01:08:32 PM by Ah.hell »

Offline John Albert

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 06:22:27 PM »
Far too much research by credible labs showing positive physical results with intermittent fasting, circadian rhythm, and really, fasting in general to disregard as woo.

I didn't discard intermittent fasting as woo. I just said that it didn't work for me.


No one on the Patric show (fairly limited compared to Ferriss) is not a credible individual with regards to human physiology.

The credibility of an alt-med "expert" is relative to the credulity of their followers.

Rhonda Patrick promotes a lot of woo like sauna therapy, cryotherapy, megavitamin therapy and "orthomolecular medicine."

Online Harry Black

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2019, 07:45:56 PM »
Ah.hell, I dont think you could read Ferris body book and not realise he is a grifter.
He uses clearly bogus before/after pics. He makes highly dubious claims about personal muscle gains, he brags about cheating while not technically 'cheating' to win a martial arts tournament and has a bizarre chapter talking about a "friend" who went on a date with a pornstar and gleaned all kinds of handy advice for men eager to please ladies.

The man is a charles atlas ad with a podcast.

Online Ah.hell

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2019, 09:14:44 AM »
Ah.hell, I dont think you could read Ferris body book and not realise he is a grifter.
He uses clearly bogus before/after pics. He makes highly dubious claims about personal muscle gains, he brags about cheating while not technically 'cheating' to win a martial arts tournament and has a bizarre chapter talking about a "friend" who went on a date with a pornstar and gleaned all kinds of handy advice for men eager to please ladies.

The man is a charles atlas ad with a podcast.
I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to read or listen to him an more than I already have. 

Online Harry Black

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2019, 03:18:38 PM »
Ah.hell, I dont think you could read Ferris body book and not realise he is a grifter.
He uses clearly bogus before/after pics. He makes highly dubious claims about personal muscle gains, he brags about cheating while not technically 'cheating' to win a martial arts tournament and has a bizarre chapter talking about a "friend" who went on a date with a pornstar and gleaned all kinds of handy advice for men eager to please ladies.

The man is a charles atlas ad with a podcast.
I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to read or listen to him an more than I already have.
I'm not saying you should take my word for it but yeah...I wouldn't suffer through it if I were you.
I read the book and watched his never aired tv show and both lead me to believe he knows that he is making misleading claims and thinks its fine to do so.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2019, 06:52:56 PM »
I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for around 20 years without knowing that there was such a diet.

I developed it when I was training for marathons.  I’d do a 90’ session of deep water running in a pool (wearing a buoyancy belt) to deplete muscle glycogen, then in the early afternoon, I’d go for a 10 km run.  Afterwards, I’d have the first meal of the day.  The aim was to get used to running on fat stores, without training long distances on the road.

I actually found it easy to keep to.  I currently eat just one meal a day, around 5-6 pm.  I find that if I eat breakfast (because I’m travelling, and the hotel accommodation includes a ‘free’ breakfast, I feel hungry all day, and eat more than usual during the day).

I personally think intermittent fasting is ‘natural.’  The idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day was propagated by Kellogg’s to sell their heavily sugared breakfast cereals.  Hunter-gatherers wouldn’t have had any food left over from the previous day to consume the next morning.  They’d have to work during the day to find and prepare food to eat later.

I agree intermittent fasting isn’t for everyone.  Personally, I find it has many benefits.  My weight control is much better.  And I’m much more careful in ensuring that I eat the best food.
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Online Harry Black

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2019, 07:23:36 AM »
It seems to work for me too.
But forest and trees.
The overall question is about the trustworthiness of these two sources and we are allowing ourselves to be diverted into discussing one thing while ignoring all of the other woo.
Just because the recommend one thing that seems to work for some people, does not in any way make them worth listening to or even safe to listen to.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2019, 03:15:09 PM »
It seems to work for me too.
But forest and trees.
The overall question is about the trustworthiness of these two sources and we are allowing ourselves to be diverted into discussing one thing while ignoring all of the other woo.
Just because the recommend one thing that seems to work for some people, does not in any way make them worth listening to or even safe to listen to.

I downloaded the Amazon sample of one of Tim Ferriss’ books, and quickly realised that I didn’t want to read it to the end, and deleted the sample.  So I don’t really know whether he’s trustworthy or not.  I did manage to get to the end of Penn Jillette’s ‘Presto,’ which is definitely not trustworthy (but Penn does note that he’s really not trustworthy, people shouldn’t be taking advice from him - but it was very funny).
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Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2019, 12:24:45 AM »
I think Harry is exactly right about Ferriss. I heard him give a couple of podcast interviews, and it totally set off my grifter/pseudoscience alarm bells. I think he is one of the more dangerous charlatans out there, because he seems to have successfully hoodwinked a lot of relatively smart people (even Ezra Klein, one of my favorite journalists). I would be awesome to have the SGU interview him and take on his nonsense.

Online Ah.hell

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Re: Tim Ferriss, Rhonda Patrick
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2019, 09:43:45 AM »
Ah.hell, I dont think you could read Ferris body book and not realise he is a grifter.
He uses clearly bogus before/after pics. He makes highly dubious claims about personal muscle gains, he brags about cheating while not technically 'cheating' to win a martial arts tournament and has a bizarre chapter talking about a "friend" who went on a date with a pornstar and gleaned all kinds of handy advice for men eager to please ladies.

The man is a charles atlas ad with a podcast.
I'll take your word for it as I have no desire to read or listen to him an more than I already have.
I'm not saying you should take my word for it but yeah...I wouldn't suffer through it if I were you.
I read the book and watched his never aired tv show and both lead me to believe he knows that he is making misleading claims and thinks its fine to do so.
I know, I just figure, he's a conman or a sucker.   Which of those he is won't change my advice and it isn't worth my time to figure out, I appreciate that others have taken the time though. 

And sure, the intermittent fasting might be good advice but as Harry said, his being right about one thing doesn't change much.  Broken clocks and all...

 

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