Author Topic: Episode #706  (Read 2175 times)

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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2019, 01:32:20 PM »
This was a very good episode, thank you for that! :)

I especially enjoyed the "Name That Logical Fallacy", I hope to see more such discussions and lessons, a very good idea for the podcast IMO. I too have noticed the mentioned phenomenon of people ascribing all sorts of political opinions to other people based on some political disagreement. It has even happened on this very forum. It just doesn't happen in politics only either. If I'm not mistaken, this very phenomenon of ascribing opinions on people based on a label, rather than something they have actually said, is one of the reasons that Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't want to call himself an atheist, even though he has said that the label applies to him.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 05:04:36 PM by Quetzalcoatl »

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2019, 12:46:15 PM »
The best defense against bears is to stay out of their habitat. Unless you already live there, you have other options. Especially in the case of polar bears. You most likely went far out of your way if you run into one of them. If you survive that but the bear doesn't, you screwed up big time.

As a result of Global Warming, many polar bears are no longer able to sustain themselves in their habitat, so they are migrating and more frequently coming into to contact with humans. There are some Alaskan and Canadian (and, presumably, Russian) towns where they have become pests, roaming the streets at night and eating out of the garbage. So, people in those villages can encounter them anywhere, and survival may not be a screw up, even if the bear doesn't survive.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2019, 08:25:36 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.
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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2019, 09:24:12 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 09:26:16 PM »
Quote
The best defense against bears is to stay out of their habitat. Unless you already live there, you have other options. Especially in the case of polar bears.

Where I used to go hiking in British Columbia before moving to Maui, there are Grizzly Bears. (Note: Brown bears and grizzly bears are the same species. Alaskans call them Brown, elsewhere they are called Grizzlies.) They pose less of a hazard to hikers who pay attention and follow best procedures than do drivers of cars. A vacation spent hiking in grizzly territory in British Columbia (I’m not familiar with Alaska, but I’m inclined to think the same will apply) is less dangerous than a vacation spent driving around North America.

People are very bad at assessing risks. They will avoid activities that pose very little actual risk in favor of activities that pose much more risk, merely because the latter is familiar and the former seems strange or exotic. One death from bear attack will be all over the news. If they reported every traffic fatality there would be no room left in the news for anything else.

I used to believe that polar bears were particularly dangerous, and I repeated that regularly. “Polar bears are the one bear that’s truly dangerous.” But the locals in Churchill, Manitoba, emphatically corrected me on my last visit there. Like any bear, you need to respect and understand the animal. But according to these people, the bears are not maniacal killing machines.

Be alert. Be aware. Be knowledgeable. Respect the bear. But there’s no need to hide under your bed. BTW, the thing I’m most afraid of in bear country are hikers who carry bear spray who have never learned how to use it or practiced with it. A bear can run the range of bear spray in two seconds. An inexperienced hiker is more likely to spray into the wind and spray you than to stop the bear. Most sensible people know that it is criminally idiotic to go out shooting a gun in the woods without ever learning how to properly handle it. But a man going out on his first hike in a national park will buy a can of bear spray and imagine that he can stop a bear with it.
Daniel
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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2019, 09:34:40 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.
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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2019, 10:00:31 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2019, 10:07:44 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2019, 10:08:33 PM »
Quote
The best defense against bears is to stay out of their habitat. Unless you already live there, you have other options. Especially in the case of polar bears.

Where I used to go hiking in British Columbia before moving to Maui, there are Grizzly Bears. (Note: Brown bears and grizzly bears are the same species. Alaskans call them Brown, elsewhere they are called Grizzlies.) They pose less of a hazard to hikers who pay attention and follow best procedures than do drivers of cars. A vacation spent hiking in grizzly territory in British Columbia (I’m not familiar with Alaska, but I’m inclined to think the same will apply) is less dangerous than a vacation spent driving around North America.

People are very bad at assessing risks. They will avoid activities that pose very little actual risk in favor of activities that pose much more risk, merely because the latter is familiar and the former seems strange or exotic. One death from bear attack will be all over the news. If they reported every traffic fatality there would be no room left in the news for anything else.

I used to believe that polar bears were particularly dangerous, and I repeated that regularly. “Polar bears are the one bear that’s truly dangerous.” But the locals in Churchill, Manitoba, emphatically corrected me on my last visit there. Like any bear, you need to respect and understand the animal. But according to these people, the bears are not maniacal killing machines.

Be alert. Be aware. Be knowledgeable. Respect the bear. But there’s no need to hide under your bed. BTW, the thing I’m most afraid of in bear country are hikers who carry bear spray who have never learned how to use it or practiced with it. A bear can run the range of bear spray in two seconds. An inexperienced hiker is more likely to spray into the wind and spray you than to stop the bear. Most sensible people know that it is criminally idiotic to go out shooting a gun in the woods without ever learning how to properly handle it. But a man going out on his first hike in a national park will buy a can of bear spray and imagine that he can stop a bear with it.

There are YouTube videos showing polar bears playing and romping with huskies, so they aren’t, as you note, maniacal killing machines.  Even the giant panda in its environment can be dangerous.  I once met a guide in China who’d been mauled by one in the wild - so even almost completely vegetarian bears can be aggressive in protecting themselves.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2019, 10:11:59 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.

You do know what hyperbole means, don’t you?  It means exaggeration, not to be taken literally.  It wouldn’t be hyperbole if it wasn’t wrong.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2019, 10:13:25 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.

You do know what hyperbole means, don’t you?  It means exaggeration, not to be taken literally.  It wouldn’t be hyperbole if it wasn’t wrong.

Hyperbole means exaggeration. You have to have something to exaggerate. If you're exaggerating a lie, it's just another lie.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2019, 10:18:16 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.

You do know what hyperbole means, don’t you?  It means exaggeration, not to be taken literally.  It wouldn’t be hyperbole if it wasn’t wrong.

Hyperbole means exaggeration. You have to have something to exaggerate. If you're exaggerating a lie, it's just another lie.

The Australian government’s refugee policy is harsh and nasty.  Hyperbole is suggesting that it’s even nastier and harsher.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2019, 10:45:42 PM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.

You do know what hyperbole means, don’t you?  It means exaggeration, not to be taken literally.  It wouldn’t be hyperbole if it wasn’t wrong.

Hyperbole means exaggeration. You have to have something to exaggerate. If you're exaggerating a lie, it's just another lie.

The Australian government’s refugee policy is harsh and nasty.  Hyperbole is suggesting that it’s even nastier and harsher.

Except that wasn't what you said, was it? You said that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was at the beginning of that phone call. That was incorrect, which can be seen easily by reading the transcript.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2019, 03:12:09 AM »
Only the Coalition wants more coal mines.

I was a little disappointed that the Coalition's approach to coal mining wasn't mentioned in the segment. Two of the three recent Liberal Party Prime Ministers have been passionate and vocal advocates of the expansion of coal mining.

https://theconversation.com/that-lump-of-coal-73046

ETA: The third recent Liberal Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, was not himself a passionate advocate of coal, but he owed his job to the coal-lovers who were pulling his strings, so he completely caved in to their agenda.

Perhaps it’s because very few people in America don’t take much notice of the Australian government, including Donald Trump not knowing who Turnbull was when he phoned to congratulate him when he was elected?  Hopefully Scott Morrison ‘stop the boats’ Morrison won’t be prime minister come May.  It’s hardly an endorsement when Australia’s refugee policies are judged as too harsh even by Trump.

What are you talking about? Turnbull gave him the idea to lock up families in that phone call.

Quote
The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Source

There's certainly nothing in that transcript indicating that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was. In fact, he brought up their "great mutual friend" Greg Norman at the beginning of the call.

It was hyperbole...

No it wasn't. It was just wrong.

You do know what hyperbole means, don’t you?  It means exaggeration, not to be taken literally.  It wouldn’t be hyperbole if it wasn’t wrong.

Hyperbole means exaggeration. You have to have something to exaggerate. If you're exaggerating a lie, it's just another lie.

The Australian government’s refugee policy is harsh and nasty.  Hyperbole is suggesting that it’s even nastier and harsher.

Except that wasn't what you said, was it? You said that Trump didn't know who Turnbull was at the beginning of that phone call. That was incorrect, which can be seen easily by reading the transcript.

I said very few people in America take notice of the Australian government.  The hyperbole was saying that Donald Trump didn’t know who Malcolm Turnbull was.  I said Australia’s refugee policy was harsh.  The hyperbole was in saying that Trump thought they were harsh too.  Hyperbole is not to be taken as literally true.
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Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Episode #706
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2019, 04:05:26 AM »

Where I used to go hiking in British Columbia before moving to Maui, there are Grizzly Bears. (Note: Brown bears and grizzly bears are the same species. Alaskans call them Brown, elsewhere they are called Grizzlies.)

You are right that the species "brown bear" (Ursus arctos) encompasses Grizzlies. Grizzlies (Ursus arctos horribilis) are a subspecies. Colloquially (at least in Alaska), "brown bear" means a non-grizzly brown bear. These non-grizzly brown bears include the huge bears that inhabit Kodiak Island. Generally, brown bears are located in coastal areas and grizzly bears inhabit the interior.