Author Topic: Tiny house craz/regrets?  (Read 681 times)

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Offline moj

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Tiny house craz/regrets?
« on: January 28, 2019, 02:33:28 PM »
I'll admit my bias and against shows like tiny house nation that seem to push people on the fence into really small houses. I don't understand how anyone with kids could even consider it? I've lived in small apartments before alone and it's doable. I don't want to bash anyone who live in a small place or prefers it, but on shows like tiny house nation it seems very close to woo like adherence to smaller is always better when in so many ways its not. It seems like these shows really push people into the tiny life with a lot of thought or concern for them. In some of the follow ups the people look miserable and like the where forced/ pressured into saying it was great for the cameras.

Investment wise its horrible. I can't imagine you make money on the resell of a tiny house, yet it's pushed s a way for financial independence because it's cheaper than a real house. While it may save you some money monthly, you are not building equity and making huge quality of life sacrifices. It may just be a pet pev of mine but these shows drive me crazy, I get really worked up because to me it really does seem like a scam. What do you all think? If a friend or family member wanted to sell everything and buy a 300 sq foot house would try and talk them out of it? I suspect most people regret buying a tiny house but haven't found a whole lot of data on it. I'm all for people living in tiny spaces if they want to, seem like it would be better though to rent a small apartment then how much it cost to have one built.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_House_Nation

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 02:38:28 PM »
They're like gentrified camper trailers.  All 'camper trailer' pros and cons apply.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 02:38:53 PM »
You would be crazy to live in a tiny house if you had kids depending on the size of the house of course.

If you can afford piece of property and a tiny house but not a piece of property and a standard size house, then it is still a decent way to go and you would build equity. 

American homes are too big, to the extent that the tiny house movement pushes back on that, its a good thing. 

We currently live in houses that are twice the size of the houses our parents grew up in and they had twice as many siblings as our children.*  Its bad for the environment and raises the price of homes.  Also, I think its more like 80% bigger than 100%, still points the same.


Assuming "we" are gen Xers and boomers and our parents were the war and silent generations and living in the US though the numbers are probably similar for most western nations.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 02:42:02 PM by Ah.hell »

Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 02:41:53 PM »
They're like gentrified camper trailers.  All 'camper trailer' pros and cons apply.

Minus the primary "pro": portability.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 02:58:15 PM »
This would be my preferred tiny house:


Forget gentrification. I'll take cheap and adequate.

edit:

The existing near-equivalents here would be:
  • Single-Room Occupancies (SROs) -- These used to be very common, very normal in cities. But they usually share bathrooms with the floor.
  • Microapartments/Apodments/Etc. -- Same but $1,000+ per mo.
For contrast, I'm daydreaming that that door at the end leads to a wetroom bathroom like this --

-- and the rent's only $300/mo.

I already live in a slummy 1-br so boy that'd be nice. Especially if it's somewhere I didn't need a car.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 03:09:16 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 03:03:06 PM »
Never heard of the show until seeing this thread, and probably will never watch it.

Americans use way too much space in terms of the environmental impact. My home in Spokane is way bigger than I could justify except that it has things I wanted. The same with the condo I’m renting here for the winter. And the same in super-spades for the houses I’m looking at in the hopes of buying one of them.

A bigger house is very nice if you can afford it. Lots of people cannot. People used to live in much smaller spaces and survived. Space is a luxury for the rich, and it is an environmentally destructive luxury. I approve of people who encourage others to use less space and less resources, even though hypocritically I am one of the ones who uses more than my share of both.
Daniel
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Offline moj

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 03:18:14 PM »
I'm all for people wanting smaller houses and agree in many cases people have much larger houses than they need, but in the show, think they go to far the other way. Normally in each episode there will be at least one family with kids and one of the parents is not sure about it, but pressured into going tiny. I think the benefits on the show are way over sold with the risks not talked about. In the show, most if not all the tiny houses are portable many people do put them at remote locations but in most cases they don't own the land, they are renting that or friends with the owner. Its a combination of all those things that I think is what is so bad about they show. I think small apartments or condo's make a lot more sense where people can better utilize shared space. Most people in the tiny house show are spending tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on there own money for a custom tiny house that seems guaranteed to loose money on the resale. I would like to to see more and better options for cheaper housing, this just seems like the wrong way about going about it. On the show to be a Tiny house it has to be 500 sq feet or less and regularly have  family of 5 or more. It seems like in the tiny community there are bragging rights for how small you can go and think its unhealthy.

I would like to see more straw bail construction or other low cost, low impact ways of finding lower cost housing. I think a happy medium can be reached with going smaller, without sacrificing that much quality of life. I don't watch the show often because I do get mad and just think they will regret everything but have follow up on if they do.

Offline seamas

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 05:53:51 PM »
The house we own (1,500 sq ft) is possibly about 1/2 the size of the home I was raised in and a little over 20 years older (built 1931).


It's a good size for the four of us most of the time, but all the rooms are small, so having friends and family over for parties or dinner is usually a pain in the ass, so we try to do that in warmer weather when we can be indoor/outdoor.

There are definitely times when I wish we had another 400-600 sq ft.

Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 12:50:49 AM »
They'd be alright for a granny flat, but not for a proper home  ???


Offline superdave

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 09:47:36 AM »
I agree with the whole taking things to far and I don't think it makes much sense for a primary home unless you live in a situation where you need to travel a lot and are rarely home.

It seems like the cost of these tiny homes is high for what you get when you consider that for not a lot more of these homes cost, you can get a small but normal house.
I disavow anyone in the movement involved in any illegal,unethical, sexist, or racist behavior. However, I don't have the energy or time to investigate each person and case, and a lack of individual disavowals for each incident should not be construed as condoning such behavior.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2019, 07:43:16 PM »
One of the things that struck me when I visited Fiji years ago was that a lot of people in rural areas seemed to live in tiny corrugated iron shacks. I wondered how they did it for a while, before I realised that these were only the places where they slept. They didn't actually spend any time in them during the day.

I can see a tiny house being used like that. I would never.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 09:40:20 AM »
The thing that would be most annoying to me is the kitchen, I like a nice big kitchen with lots of storage.

I think I would enjoy the engineering challenge of getting the most use out of the least space if I designed my own.  I'd love to try and design one from a cargo container. 

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 12:36:20 PM »
I wondered how they did it for a while, before I realised that these were only the places where they slept. They didn't actually spend any time in them during the day.

I've been thinking that that is the urban design approach to take if if we want both --
  • every human to live in a high HDI society
  • every high HDI society to be sustainable
-- because you'd potentially maintain quality-of-life while dropping per capita resource costs if you:
  • packed everyone into tiny flats
  • made public/shared spaces glorious
Saw something relevant in a rebuke to Davos Man's interpretation of the world.

Here's the tweet:
https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1086662632587907072

Here's the rebuke:
Quote
Prior to colonisation, most people lived in subsistence economies where they enjoyed access to abundant commons – land, water, forests, livestock and robust systems of sharing and reciprocity. They had little if any money, but then they didn’t need it in order to live well – so it makes little sense to claim that they were poor. This way of life was violently destroyed by colonisers who forced people off the land and into European-owned mines, factories and plantations, where they were paid paltry wages for work they never wanted to do in the first place.

In other words, Roser’s graph illustrates a story of coerced proletarianisation. It is not at all clear that this represents an improvement in people’s lives, as in most cases we know that the new income people earned from wages didn’t come anywhere close to compensating for their loss of land and resources, which were of course gobbled up by colonisers. Gates’s favourite infographic takes the violence of colonisation and repackages it as a happy story of progress.

I wonder how receptive people would generally be to 'tiny private spaces / glorious public spaces.'  It's pretty much what we evolved around.  Not like our ancestors spent all day in their huts by themselves staring at slate tablets. Or chipping flint 40 - 60 hours per week for one gigantic asshole or other.
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 01:54:31 PM »
Colonialism was devastating for the people in the colonized countries. As noted above, it replaced abundant shared resources in a subsistence barter economy with starvation wages and filthy housing in polluted, overcrowded cities. And capitalism has insured that a portion of the population remains in poverty and, in extreme cases, destitution.

But what has greatly improved over the last century is our understanding of disease and sanitation, and our ability to prevent and treat diseases and injuries.

If resources were evenly distributed, everyone would be healthier and better fed today than two centuries ago. And the economic models of the distant past could not feed the population of today’s world. Some would argue that life would be much better if we returned to the population of two (or ten) centuries ago. The trade-off would be that we probably would not have modern medicine without the population that supports the modern industrial economy (and is destroying the environment in the process.) I would not want to have lived in a time before modern medicine. But my lifestyle, and the lifestyle of industrialized nations in general, is assuring that future generations, if they survive at all, will live lives devoid of most if not all of the comforts we take for granted.
Daniel
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Tiny house craz/regrets?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2019, 02:22:49 PM »
I suspect you guys have a pretty romantic notion of what pre-industrial/colonial life was like around the world.  "Abundant shared resources" and "abundant commons".  More like somewhat more equitable privation but hey, tomato or tomato, eh. 

On the other hand, I do agree with:

If resources were evenly distributed, everyone would be healthier and better fed today than two centuries ago. And the economic models of the distant past could not feed the population of today’s world. Some would argue that life would be much better if we returned to the population of two (or ten) centuries ago. The trade-off would be that we probably would not have modern medicine without the population that supports the modern industrial economy (and is destroying the environment in the process.) I would not want to have lived in a time before modern medicine. But my lifestyle, and the lifestyle of industrialized nations in general, is assuring that future generations, if they survive at all, will live lives devoid of most if not all of the comforts we take for granted.

 

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