Author Topic: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"  (Read 7910 times)

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Offline brilligtove

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2019, 03:35:06 PM »
I didn't mean that the US under long-term Democratic governance would be a copy of Canada. Obviously there are cultural differences that are deeper than things like healthcare. But I though the US would be pretty similar to Canada.

I fully admit I might be completely wrong on this. But Canada is sometimes called US Lite, and I would view that as a positive thing. To my distant eyes, Canada seems to be like the US, but without much of the crazy stuff. A Swedish person I know of who has travelled extensively in both countries described Canada to have all the benefits of the US, but none of its drawbacks.

But if my impression is mistaken, please feel free to correct it.



Almost 20 years ago this commercial ripped through our country, providing one of the clearest views of who Canadians are, instead of who we are not. Prior to this much of our description of our culture was comparing ourselves to Americans. After this we started talking about stuff like the cultural mosaic and peacekeeping as their own things, not in contrast to melting pots or police actions.

This is not to say that one 60 second spot covers the range of Canadian culture... but it triggered a different kind of conversation that we are carrying on today. Canada was not founded by heroes. We did not battle our way out of oppression. We didn't have harrowing death-filled internal conflicts. We are a young country with a vast array of cultures. Sure, the dominant narratives are still echoes of the British and French cultures from hundreds of years ago.

In the last 40 years we've developed a sense of self that is distinct from almost every other culture. It's not held homogeneously across the land, of course. Xenophobic populism is on the rise here too. I think our urban/suburban/rural divides are stark and growing in many cases. Demographically I think we may have passed the tipping point for populism of that sort to really take root, though. I expect that the next 20 years will see an demand for dramatically increased immigration, and the people who fight that sort of thing will be dying off in droves. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we take in millions of climate change migrants in the late 2020s and early 2030s. It would shock me if the US did the same.
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Online amysrevenge

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2019, 03:50:14 PM »
I've lived in both.  I'll never live in the US again.  No offense, but I know what I like and what I don't like.  And GoFundMes for insulin, I don't like.
And also the threat of being shot at any given time.

I never actually felt that particular threat (on an emotional level). 

But I did basically predial 9-1, hover over the 1, and wait and see if the insect that stung me would kill me or not, because if I hit that last 1 we would be bankrupted whether it turned out to be the sort I was allergic to or not (it wasn't).

Sucks to live paycheque to paycheque, but it sucks a lot less in Canada ( I had a health scare while unemployed back here.  I went to the doctor, went to emergency, got imaged several times, saw a specialist, and more - I paid more for parking than we could really afford, but that's all).
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 03:53:00 PM by amysrevenge »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2019, 03:59:31 PM »
I didn't mean that the US under long-term Democratic governance would be a copy of Canada. Obviously there are cultural differences that are deeper than things like healthcare. But I though the US would be pretty similar to Canada.

I fully admit I might be completely wrong on this. But Canada is sometimes called US Lite, and I would view that as a positive thing. To my distant eyes, Canada seems to be like the US, but without much of the crazy stuff. A Swedish person I know of who has travelled extensively in both countries described Canada to have all the benefits of the US, but none of its drawbacks.

But if my impression is mistaken, please feel free to correct it.

This is a joke, but with some real truth in it:

Q: How do you tell the difference between a Canadian and a U.S. American?

A: You tell them that there is no difference. The U.S. American will agree. The Canadian will disagree.

We are very different countries with very different cultures. To a European or an Asian or an African they may look the same. The same way most Americans cannot tell the difference between the people of different Asian countries. But our neighbors can tell the difference. Easily.

Canada is not “U.S. lite.” Canada is something different and altogether better (unless you have sufficient money to buy the best of everything). We speak the same language (with very minor variation) but Canadians recognize the right of their linguistic minorities to speak their own languages, while we only give lip service to such rights. And we eat many of the same foods. We are both capitalist democracies (to the extent that we are a democracy at all). We both call our unit of currency the dollar. We have many superficial similarities. But these are superficial. And our Democratic Party does not want to make the U.S. anything like Canada.
Daniel
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2019, 12:29:12 PM »
I am glad I read this thread.
Quote from: Steven Novella
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2019, 04:14:09 PM »
I didn't mean that the US under long-term Democratic governance would be a copy of Canada. Obviously there are cultural differences that are deeper than things like healthcare. But I though the US would be pretty similar to Canada.

I fully admit I might be completely wrong on this. But Canada is sometimes called US Lite, and I would view that as a positive thing. To my distant eyes, Canada seems to be like the US, but without much of the crazy stuff. A Swedish person I know of who has travelled extensively in both countries described Canada to have all the benefits of the US, but none of its drawbacks.

But if my impression is mistaken, please feel free to correct it.

This is a joke, but with some real truth in it:

Q: How do you tell the difference between a Canadian and a U.S. American?

A: You tell them that there is no difference. The U.S. American will agree. The Canadian will disagree.

We are very different countries with very different cultures. To a European or an Asian or an African they may look the same. The same way most Americans cannot tell the difference between the people of different Asian countries. But our neighbors can tell the difference. Easily.

Canada is not “U.S. lite.” Canada is something different and altogether better (unless you have sufficient money to buy the best of everything). We speak the same language (with very minor variation) but Canadians recognize the right of their linguistic minorities to speak their own languages, while we only give lip service to such rights. And we eat many of the same foods. We are both capitalist democracies (to the extent that we are a democracy at all). We both call our unit of currency the dollar. We have many superficial similarities. But these are superficial. And our Democratic Party does not want to make the U.S. anything like Canada.

Sorry to offend, but both countries are former British colonies in North America. That alone poises them for some similarities. And their similarities can be seen by cultural comparisons on a global scale.

If you compare the countries by cultural values (Hofstede), they are pretty similar. See.

For comparison, I added Sweden and Norway to the list. Their cultural values are not very different from the American and Canadian ones, with the exception that these are much less "masculine" societies, which in this case means inclined to competition. Both Sweden and Norway are individualist societies, for example, though less so than the US and Canada.

But the US, Canada, Norway, and Sweden all originate from the same Western European cultural background. Let us instead compare the US and Canada to Japan and South Korea. The latter two have Western influences since after World War 2, but still maintain their distinct cultures, and have very different historical backgrounds. Here we see significant differences. In particular, the US and Canada are both much more individualistic than Japan and South Korea, the latter one's low score really surprised me. The two Asian countries are also much more long-term oriented than the two Anglo-Saxon countries, and much more avoiding of uncertainty, and much less indulgent. And for some reason, Japan is much more masculine than all of the other three countries.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline daniel1948

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2019, 04:50:41 PM »
My point was merely that most people in the U.S. see Canada as being just like us, while most Canadians are offended by the idea. And there are very real and significant differences even though we share a cultural background.
Daniel
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2019, 06:38:48 PM »
I should learn French, full-stack development and emigrate to Canada.

Don't think you can emigrate with no job experience so I can't imagine a French-language knock off of Zork in Vue.js would get me very far.
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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2019, 06:59:17 PM »
I should learn French, full-stack development and emigrate to Canada.

Go for it. I've thought about retiring to the Gaspésie. Might take some getting used to the scenery, however,


Offline brilligtove

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2019, 08:23:47 PM »
I didn't mean that the US under long-term Democratic governance would be a copy of Canada. Obviously there are cultural differences that are deeper than things like healthcare. But I though the US would be pretty similar to Canada.

I fully admit I might be completely wrong on this. But Canada is sometimes called US Lite, and I would view that as a positive thing. To my distant eyes, Canada seems to be like the US, but without much of the crazy stuff. A Swedish person I know of who has travelled extensively in both countries described Canada to have all the benefits of the US, but none of its drawbacks.

But if my impression is mistaken, please feel free to correct it.

This is a joke, but with some real truth in it:

Q: How do you tell the difference between a Canadian and a U.S. American?

A: You tell them that there is no difference. The U.S. American will agree. The Canadian will disagree.

We are very different countries with very different cultures. To a European or an Asian or an African they may look the same. The same way most Americans cannot tell the difference between the people of different Asian countries. But our neighbors can tell the difference. Easily.

Canada is not “U.S. lite.” Canada is something different and altogether better (unless you have sufficient money to buy the best of everything). We speak the same language (with very minor variation) but Canadians recognize the right of their linguistic minorities to speak their own languages, while we only give lip service to such rights. And we eat many of the same foods. We are both capitalist democracies (to the extent that we are a democracy at all). We both call our unit of currency the dollar. We have many superficial similarities. But these are superficial. And our Democratic Party does not want to make the U.S. anything like Canada.

Sorry to offend, but both countries are former British colonies in North America. That alone poises them for some similarities. And their similarities can be seen by cultural comparisons on a global scale.

If you compare the countries by cultural values (Hofstede), they are pretty similar. See.

For comparison, I added Sweden and Norway to the list. Their cultural values are not very different from the American and Canadian ones, with the exception that these are much less "masculine" societies, which in this case means inclined to competition. Both Sweden and Norway are individualist societies, for example, though less so than the US and Canada.

But the US, Canada, Norway, and Sweden all originate from the same Western European cultural background. Let us instead compare the US and Canada to Japan and South Korea. The latter two have Western influences since after World War 2, but still maintain their distinct cultures, and have very different historical backgrounds. Here we see significant differences. In particular, the US and Canada are both much more individualistic than Japan and South Korea, the latter one's low score really surprised me. The two Asian countries are also much more long-term oriented than the two Anglo-Saxon countries, and much more avoiding of uncertainty, and much less indulgent. And for some reason, Japan is much more masculine than all of the other three countries.

By that logic Sweden and Australia are mostly the same because Europe, or that China and Japan are mostly the same because Asia. Having similarities and shared roots does not mean that the cultures are very similar *now*.

Australia, Canada, and the US were founded on ideas and immigration - unlike basically every other country. The founding ideas included colonialism and democracy in each case, as well as mostly English as the main language. After that? The differences are significant.
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Online 2397

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2019, 06:52:44 AM »
I feel like Norway has more in common with Canada than Canada has with the US. Cold, desolate, high degree of public services, sometimes mixed up with its more populous neighbor, parliament, powerless monarch, Celsius, moose.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2019, 07:53:06 AM »


Half of Canada lives south of that line.


Norway is an ancient monoculture that deeply resents being invaded by foreign refugees, and an immensely egalitarian society that invites in huge numbers of refugees because they need help and people are people. Canada is a young multiculture that struggles to properly respect the large number of immigrants that go there. The US is a xenophobic cultural steamroller that crushes or appropriates any non-white-male culture while remaining ignorant of the effects of priviledge or even the concept of priviledge.


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Online amysrevenge

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2019, 10:41:53 AM »


Half of Canada lives south of that line.

NOT MY HALF
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 12:39:55 PM »


Half of Canada lives south of that line.

NOT MY HALF

Yes, that is how fractions work. Your point...?
/sargasm
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 01:52:39 PM »
I didn't mean that the US under long-term Democratic governance would be a copy of Canada. Obviously there are cultural differences that are deeper than things like healthcare. But I though the US would be pretty similar to Canada.

I fully admit I might be completely wrong on this. But Canada is sometimes called US Lite, and I would view that as a positive thing. To my distant eyes, Canada seems to be like the US, but without much of the crazy stuff. A Swedish person I know of who has travelled extensively in both countries described Canada to have all the benefits of the US, but none of its drawbacks.

But if my impression is mistaken, please feel free to correct it.

This is a joke, but with some real truth in it:

Q: How do you tell the difference between a Canadian and a U.S. American?

A: You tell them that there is no difference. The U.S. American will agree. The Canadian will disagree.

We are very different countries with very different cultures. To a European or an Asian or an African they may look the same. The same way most Americans cannot tell the difference between the people of different Asian countries. But our neighbors can tell the difference. Easily.

Canada is not “U.S. lite.” Canada is something different and altogether better (unless you have sufficient money to buy the best of everything). We speak the same language (with very minor variation) but Canadians recognize the right of their linguistic minorities to speak their own languages, while we only give lip service to such rights. And we eat many of the same foods. We are both capitalist democracies (to the extent that we are a democracy at all). We both call our unit of currency the dollar. We have many superficial similarities. But these are superficial. And our Democratic Party does not want to make the U.S. anything like Canada.

Sorry to offend, but both countries are former British colonies in North America. That alone poises them for some similarities. And their similarities can be seen by cultural comparisons on a global scale.

If you compare the countries by cultural values (Hofstede), they are pretty similar. See.

For comparison, I added Sweden and Norway to the list. Their cultural values are not very different from the American and Canadian ones, with the exception that these are much less "masculine" societies, which in this case means inclined to competition. Both Sweden and Norway are individualist societies, for example, though less so than the US and Canada.

But the US, Canada, Norway, and Sweden all originate from the same Western European cultural background. Let us instead compare the US and Canada to Japan and South Korea. The latter two have Western influences since after World War 2, but still maintain their distinct cultures, and have very different historical backgrounds. Here we see significant differences. In particular, the US and Canada are both much more individualistic than Japan and South Korea, the latter one's low score really surprised me. The two Asian countries are also much more long-term oriented than the two Anglo-Saxon countries, and much more avoiding of uncertainty, and much less indulgent. And for some reason, Japan is much more masculine than all of the other three countries.

By that logic Sweden and Australia are mostly the same because Europe, or that China and Japan are mostly the same because Asia. Having similarities and shared roots does not mean that the cultures are very similar *now*.

Australia, Canada, and the US were founded on ideas and immigration - unlike basically every other country. The founding ideas included colonialism and democracy in each case, as well as mostly English as the main language. After that? The differences are significant.

Actually I think Sweden and Australia have rather similar values. Both are stable democracies with largely post-Christian (Protestant) secularized populations. Sure there are differences. But values-wise, they have much more in common with each other than any of them has with Russia or China.

Having similar societal values doesn't mean "being the same".
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life"
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2019, 01:59:24 PM »
My point was merely that most people in the U.S. see Canada as being just like us, while most Canadians are offended by the idea. And there are very real and significant differences even though we share a cultural background.

What people are offended by is irrelevant to the truth of anything.

And yes, they are not copies. But on a global measure in comparison to many other countries, they are closely aligned when it comes to societal values.

Both supporters and detractors seem to view the US as very uniquely different compared to all other countries. But various surveys of societal values across the world don't support that notion.

See also the below chart. The US and Canada are close to each other, as are the other English-speaking countries.

"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

 

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