Author Topic: Episode #711  (Read 4199 times)

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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #711
« Reply #105 on: March 02, 2019, 06:00:19 PM »
Watch the spillover. And the ad hominems.

If your claims were valid you could support them

They are not

Lashing out at me doesn’t make them true


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I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #711
« Reply #106 on: March 02, 2019, 08:32:45 PM »
Watch the spillover. And the ad hominems.

If your claims were valid you could support them

They are not

Lashing out at me doesn’t make them true


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There’s no spillover in a thread devoted to an entire SGU episode, even if the discussion is dealing with CIA conspiracy theories.

And you’re on record as believing that the dietary recommendations for Americans are completely wrong in order to advance your ideological preference for your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet.  Including claiming that grazing animals sequester carbon and reduce global warming.  And animal based diets aren’t more expensive than plant based diets, inherently.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #711
« Reply #107 on: March 03, 2019, 12:00:54 AM »
It is spillover. Stop making me defend carbshark.

Mr.Beagle-
It is not sinning bravely. If something great is at stake then torture is even more unethical.
Im actually not that bothered about the suffering of consenting combatants, but torture does not work!!! it gives unreliable information that needs to be vetted via other means. If you are looking for the seemingly equally ubiquitous and elusive ticking time bomb, then that time spent verifying would be time wasted as the clock counts down. Do you keep torturing while you do so?
The focus on how immoral torture is really fucking grinds my gears, because it makes it seem that morals are the only reason you shouldnt do it, and the types of people who work in SOF or Int often pride themselves on being morally flexible sin eaters.
The reason you shouldnt torture is because it yields no usable intel.
No one in Guantanamo bay can ever be prosecuted because they were tortured. And nothing useful was gained from the act because nothing useful COULD be gained from the act. Many of the men there werent even terrorists. They were just caught up in a beaurocratic chain of lunacy because some 19 year old corporal thought they looked dodgy.
The prisoners AND the jailers are all traumatised because of this bullshit.
More enemies of the US have been created. (Good job keeping everyone safe dipshits.)

WW2 interrogation specialists specifically distanced themselves from these acts because even in fighting the nazis, they knew how utterly stupid it is to torture people and that its purely an ignorant act of cruelty rather than pragmatic utilitarianism.


All this and Guantanamo Bay is still only the most recent terrible thing they have done that gives zero benefit to the american people.

But hey. Their hearts are in the right place and they seem nice when you chat to them.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #711
« Reply #108 on: March 03, 2019, 12:10:31 AM »
It is spillover. Stop making me defend carbshark.

Mr.Beagle-
It is not sinning bravely. If something great is at stake then torture is even more unethical.
Im actually not that bothered about the suffering of consenting combatants, but torture does not work!!! it gives unreliable information that needs to be vetted via other means. If you are looking for the seemingly equally ubiquitous and elusive ticking time bomb, then that time spent verifying would be time wasted as the clock counts down. Do you keep torturing while you do so?
The focus on how immoral torture is really fucking grinds my gears, because it makes it seem that morals are the only reason you shouldnt do it, and the types of people who work in SOF or Int often pride themselves on being morally flexible sin eaters.
The reason you shouldnt torture is because it yields no usable intel.
No one in Guantanamo bay can ever be prosecuted because they were tortured. And nothing useful was gained from the act because nothing useful COULD be gained from the act. Many of the men there werent even terrorists. They were just caught up in a beaurocratic chain of lunacy because some 19 year old corporal thought they looked dodgy.
The prisoners AND the jailers are all traumatised because of this bullshit.
More enemies of the US have been created. (Good job keeping everyone safe dipshits.)

WW2 interrogation specialists specifically distanced themselves from these acts because even in fighting the nazis, they knew how utterly stupid it is to torture people and that its purely an ignorant act of cruelty rather than pragmatic utilitarianism.


All this and Guantanamo Bay is still only the most recent terrible thing they have done that gives zero benefit to the american people.

But hey. Their hearts are in the right place and they seem nice when you chat to them.

Well, Carbshark believes there’s a conspiracy of health authorities to recommend unhealthy dietary guidelines, so it’s relevant to other commenters’ responses.  And he stated that he’s not guilty of a conspiracy theory, so it’s an ad hominem attack, but that’s untrue too.

You’re a pretty strange moderator, using obscenity in a typo’ ridden comment.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 12:21:37 AM by bachfiend »
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Offline CarbShark

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Episode #711
« Reply #109 on: March 03, 2019, 01:50:31 AM »
Guantanamo Bay is a military operation. Not CIA. Although some prisoners were captured by CIA.

Some of the prisoners there have been tried in other countries.

The only reason the remaining prisoners aren’t tried in the US is the Republicans blocked Obama’s efforts to close the prison and Try them in New York. For political reasons. Noting to do with torture.

Not all Guantanamo prisoners have been water boarded (tortured).

You seem to be saying if torture worked it would be OK.

I disagree. It is immoral. Further, if we torture the enemy’s we’ve captured they’ll be just as heinous if not more to our troops when captured. But mostly it’s immoral. 




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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: Episode #711
« Reply #110 on: March 03, 2019, 02:57:18 PM »
It is spillover. Stop making me defend carbshark.

Mr.Beagle-
It is not sinning bravely. If something great is at stake then torture is even more unethical.
Im actually not that bothered about the suffering of consenting combatants, but torture does not work!!! it gives unreliable information that needs to be vetted via other means. If you are looking for the seemingly equally ubiquitous and elusive ticking time bomb, then that time spent verifying would be time wasted as the clock counts down. Do you keep torturing while you do so?
The focus on how immoral torture is really fucking grinds my gears, because it makes it seem that morals are the only reason you shouldnt do it, and the types of people who work in SOF or Int often pride themselves on being morally flexible sin eaters.
The reason you shouldnt torture is because it yields no usable intel.
No one in Guantanamo bay can ever be prosecuted because they were tortured. And nothing useful was gained from the act because nothing useful COULD be gained from the act. Many of the men there werent even terrorists. They were just caught up in a beaurocratic chain of lunacy because some 19 year old corporal thought they looked dodgy.
The prisoners AND the jailers are all traumatised because of this bullshit.
More enemies of the US have been created. (Good job keeping everyone safe dipshits.)

WW2 interrogation specialists specifically distanced themselves from these acts because even in fighting the nazis, they knew how utterly stupid it is to torture people and that its purely an ignorant act of cruelty rather than pragmatic utilitarianism.


All this and Guantanamo Bay is still only the most recent terrible thing they have done that gives zero benefit to the american people.

But hey. Their hearts are in the right place and they seem nice when you chat to them.

I do not find torture, even "enhanced interrogation techniques," in the least way moral (nor effective). That is exactly my point. The Bush/Cheney defenders tried to say waterboarding, for instance (for which we executed Japanese soldiers after WWII), was acceptable under the circumstances. I say it wasn't. I put this in the category of the recommendation that the keycodes to launching nuclear weapons out to be implanted into a military aide, who would have to be killed by the President in order to get the codes.

This is an extreme application of the trolley problem. My question is that if you personally had to face prison for authorizing torture, would you do it under the torture apologist's claimed conditions, say an imminent attack? Most people would not, and that is a good thing, because the assertion is most likely a false one. The captured Iraqis, for instance, had no intelligence worth torturing anyone over.
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