Author Topic: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'  (Read 307 times)

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Offline NaiveEnquirer

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Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« on: March 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM »
Leaving aside the issue of 'qi' being invisible, unobservable, and unmeasurable (and probably non-existent)... Have any studies been conducted to test whether Chinese Medicine experts can independently classify people with 'qi deficiency' with reasonable inter-rater agreement?  It is possible for instance that things that are markers of a diagnosis of qi deficiency could be a recognisable collection of symptoms of another condition that has nothing to do with qi.  Or it could be that there is no really reproducible structure to a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'.

Replace 'qi deficiency' with any other Chinese medical diagnosis that you like.

I ask because I am reading a Cochrane review of interventions to treat fatigue after stroke has included a study of treatment of post stroke fatigue as if it were qi deficiency along with a whole lot of other interventions for fatigue (Western medicines, mindfulness-based stress reduction, fatigue management education etc.): Wu  et al. (2015). Interventions for post‐stroke fatigue. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, Issue 7. Art. No.: CD007030. DOI: 10.1002/14651858.CD007030.pub3.

 

Offline fred.slota

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Re: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 10:37:02 PM »
What would showing reliability/repeatability of labeling a person as qi- vs. qi+ have to do with whether or not qi exists?

I could train 10 people in how to identify blocked chakras, negative auras or cootie infections by physical examination by looking at left-handedness, detached earlobes or whether index or ring finger is longer and get near perfect reproducability. 

Offline SmileyGuy

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Re: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 12:32:37 PM »
I see traditional Chinese medicine as starting with a totally nonsense base (four humours, magical energy), and over thousands of years of experience and observation, they've managed to find some ways of figuring out which herbs will help a person, even if they don't know why or how.  Their diagnostic techniques might be nonsense, and their explanations for why a herb would help might be nonsense, but they can for some disorders find an herbal remedy that has a reasonable probability of helping.  Maybe they'll say that your tongue indicates low qi, and that herb x will help because its leaves are tongue shaped, but while looking at your tongue they see obvious sores in you mouth, and thousands of years of experience shows that herb x helps heal those sores.  Western medicine might diagnose it as a specific bacterial infection and that 6-2 tri-benzaldehyde is effective at treating it, and that herb x just happens to be a natural source of that chemical.

For qi, or any other undetectable quality, you can make up any set of 'diagnostic markers' and have perfect reliability because that's how you set it up.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 01:00:14 PM »
Except tht "traditional" Chinese medicine is complete nonsense, as shown by the fact that in China, anybody who can afford to go to a real doctor does so, and only people who cannot afford real medicine go to "traditional healers".

So-called "traditional" Chinese medicine was actually developed (or at least revived) by Mao because his economic and social policies were so disastrous that nobody had access to real medicine. It's only in the west that people who can afford real medicine turn to "traditional" (i.e., Maoist) herbal remedies.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 04:54:23 PM »
Not only is CAM ineffective, it's not even traditional.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Studies of reliability of a diagnosis of 'qi deficiency'
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 08:15:15 PM »
Actually, traditional medicine was prayer. Or finding someone to blame and killing them. Both western and non-western cultures had their brujos and their priests who "cured" people by appealing to God or the gods. And since most people get better on their own, these "traditional" methods seemed to work. Until, that is, you look at lifespans before and after the developement of medical science. Then we see that people living with "traditional" medical practices live about half as long, on average, as people who have access to evidence-based medicine.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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