Author Topic: Tech Woes  (Read 657 times)

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Online werecow

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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 01:39:41 PM »
So, after this, I did a slightly deeper dive on AACS2 and playing UHD content on the PC. This came right after I bought an "HDMI 2.1 compatible" cable only to notice that it was a regular HDMI 1.4 cable (which are all "compatible" with HDMI 2.1 in that the connectors are the same, but the bandwidth is different and some features will be disabled, like dynamic HDR). As far as I can tell, UHD content uses BDXL disks. It turns out there are two categories of bluray drives that can read BDXL discs. There's the so-called "UHD friendly" types, which actually can read the files on the BDXL but don't have an AACS2 certificate, and thus cannot be used with software players that are AACS2 compliant. Some of these have just disabled reading of UHD discs through firmware upgrades, so I had to downgrade my firmware to even be able to read the discs. Then there's the "UHD official" drives, which do have an AACS2 certificate, but are well over twice as expensive and are potentially subject to AACS2 revocation, which means that, should your key ever be abused or compromised (as has happened in the past), that key could be revoked and end up being shipped with some future bluray releases. If I understand this correctly, when you put a disk in your drive which has your drive's AACS key blacklisted, the drive is apparently bricked. It's amazing to me that this is legal.

So the AACS2 "UHD official" drives are essentially not future proof and function by the grace of the DRM gods, whereas the others can't play video. So, on the bright side, the drive I bought is "future proof", in that some asshole can't just decide to cripple my drive or player by, say, expiring or revoking a key, and it's apparently also a really good drive for burning BDXL and encrypted disks (although I probably won't use the burning capabilities that much). And I actually did manage to rip my UHD The Martian copy to my HDD with the downgraded firmware. But I don't see myself buying movies that won't play without spending about an hour ripping them and wasting 50GB/movie, and streaming anything over 720p, maybe 1080p on a good day, is not possible with my internet connection.

This stuff makes me nerdrage uncontrollably and I sound like I have severe tourettes when I just want to relax after a hard day, and instead I spend three hours just hoping to get any of my legally purchased movies to play at the quality I paid through the nose for, with no luck. I guess when it comes to UHD, I'm back to being a movie pirate and just downloading things for free. Which works without any issues 100% of the time, and causes none of the blood boiling, mouth frothing and minor aneurisms that trying to get bluray, and before it DVD, working caused back when that was still an issue. That vicious battle is still etched in my mind.

Great job, movie and DRM industry.



Or, as the Martian would put it:

« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 10:33:25 PM by werecow »
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Online The Latinist

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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2019, 01:46:19 PM »
If you want to watch 4K Blu-ray disks, why not just get a 4K Blu-ray player? You say yourself that you don't want to rip them, so why bother with the aggravation?  You can get a quality 4K Blu-ray player for ~150 and you won't have to worry about DRM or graphics card issues.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 01:51:46 PM by The Latinist »
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Online werecow

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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2019, 02:39:54 PM »
If you want to watch 4K Blu-ray disks, why not just get a 4K Blu-ray player? You say yourself that you don't want to rip them, so why bother with the aggravation?  You can get a quality 4K Blu-ray player for ~150 and you won't have to worry about DRM or graphics card issues.

Maybe... I have thought about that, but I don't like that idea much either. I actually did do that back when I couldn't get 1080p blurays to play on my PC. I bought one that had a pretty good rating. However, it was a total disaster. The sound was almost inaudible except for the explosions, which were MASSIVELY loud and woke up my neighbors and scared the shit out of me. This may have something to do with my 5.1 set being designed for the PC, but in any case, sound normalization did nothing at all (whereas it works perfectly on my PC), and the sound and image quality (a lot of hardware decoding artifacts) were inferior to that produced by the only software player I had at the time that played some of my discs some of the time. It also made way more noise than my software player via my burner, which had an option to adjust drive speed. And unlike the software player, I couidn't download subtitles if the movie came without them, and I couldn't skip the annoying intros and trailers. I think I used it twice in total (EDIT: probably more like 5 times, but I also remember it refusing to play some discs with BD-live when my internet connection was down once - which was supposed to be fixed by a firmware upgrade, except that the upgrade service never worked). So I'm a little hesitant to repeat that experiment.

Using a separate player meant that, whenever I would want to look something up or take a small break while listening to a podcast or a bit of music (which for some reason I tend to do every ten minutes or so), chat with a friend for a minute, or maybe post here, I had to switch inputs and adjust volume and color settings, which was annoying. And I also don't have much space, so I'd rather not have an extra device. I may change my mind in the future, but if I'm gonna go for less than perfect, I'd still rather do it via the PC for now. And, since I'd still want to hook up my PC to my projector some of the time anyway, for UHD I'd need yet another 10m HDMI 2.1 cable. Plus for €150 I could also get an AACS2 compliant bluray burner, which in theory should work with an AACS compliant software player. But I think I'll wait and see a bit first.

I have watched all my media through my computer for about 20 years now, and when it's working properly, it's great. It delivers far more functionality and options than a €150,- bluray player ever could, and it's hooked up to my projector, sound system, VR headset (although that is non-functional until I get a better GPU) and everything else I need or want. I even have a crappy microscope hooked up to it with a camera that I sometimes watch on the projector screen. }|:op

And anyway, the point isn't that there are no alternatives. But it pisses me off that I should have to go there. This could all work perfectly fine if this completely pointless and perpetually failing DRM malware didn't exist. When has this stuff ever managed to stop people from pirating movies? It seems to exist just to torment users. Gives me a sad.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 02:47:37 PM by werecow »
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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2019, 04:40:35 PM »
If you want to watch 4K Blu-ray disks, why not just get a 4K Blu-ray player? You say yourself that you don't want to rip them, so why bother with the aggravation?  You can get a quality 4K Blu-ray player for ~150 and you won't have to worry about DRM or graphics card issues.

Maybe... I have thought about that, but I don't like that idea much either. I actually did do that back when I couldn't get 1080p blurays to play on my PC. I bought one that had a pretty good rating. However, it was a total disaster. The sound was almost inaudible except for the explosions, which were MASSIVELY loud and woke up my neighbors and scared the shit out of me. This may have something to do with my 5.1 set being designed for the PC, but in any case, sound normalization did nothing at all (whereas it works perfectly on my PC), and the sound and image quality (a lot of hardware decoding artifacts) were inferior to that produced by the only software player I had at the time that played some of my discs some of the time. It also made way more noise than my software player via my burner, which had an option to adjust drive speed. And unlike the software player, I couidn't download subtitles if the movie came without them, and I couldn't skip the annoying intros and trailers. I think I used it twice in total (EDIT: probably more like 5 times, but I also remember it refusing to play some discs with BD-live when my internet connection was down once - which was supposed to be fixed by a firmware upgrade, except that the upgrade service never worked). So I'm a little hesitant to repeat that experiment.

Using a separate player meant that, whenever I would want to look something up or take a small break while listening to a podcast or a bit of music (which for some reason I tend to do every ten minutes or so), chat with a friend for a minute, or maybe post here, I had to switch inputs and adjust volume and color settings, which was annoying. And I also don't have much space, so I'd rather not have an extra device. I may change my mind in the future, but if I'm gonna go for less than perfect, I'd still rather do it via the PC for now. And, since I'd still want to hook up my PC to my projector some of the time anyway, for UHD I'd need yet another 10m HDMI 2.1 cable. Plus for €150 I could also get an AACS2 compliant bluray burner, which in theory should work with an AACS compliant software player. But I think I'll wait and see a bit first.

I have watched all my media through my computer for about 20 years now, and when it's working properly, it's great. It delivers far more functionality and options than a €150,- bluray player ever could, and it's hooked up to my projector, sound system, VR headset (although that is non-functional until I get a better GPU) and everything else I need or want. I even have a crappy microscope hooked up to it with a camera that I sometimes watch on the projector screen. }|:op

And anyway, the point isn't that there are no alternatives. But it pisses me off that I should have to go there. This could all work perfectly fine if this completely pointless and perpetually failing DRM malware didn't exist. When has this stuff ever managed to stop people from pirating movies? It seems to exist just to torment users. Gives me a sad.

I'm willing to bet that it stops millions of people from pirating. You are the exception to the rule as are many on this forum. We just have to deal with it, Some protections make my job ridiculously hard like EDID I mentioned earlier.

Would you believe I have had to rip files off of disk media for playback that I have complete permission and license to use?  Production hands me a DVD for playback and i'm like " what should I do with this?" I'll put it next to my VCR, cassette, and 8-track players then run out and purchase the blu-ray for ripping or better yet find it online (legally).  Not that I am playing back 4k which is usually pointless for what I do, I just need the higher quality file to convert to something I can use. I have a method for recording protected content live to Prores 222 or even 444 and uncompressed but its a pain in the ass and expensive as it should be.  The final will probably be mp4 or DVX3 

Im impressed with your attention to detail with color and video settings. I don't bother with that myself for home use as much as I should, i'm usually too tired.



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Online werecow

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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2019, 05:56:49 PM »
I'm willing to bet that it stops millions of people from pirating. You are the exception to the rule as are many on this forum. We just have to deal with it, Some protections make my job ridiculously hard like EDID I mentioned earlier.
It may stop individual users from ripping the content themselves (although note that for me the easiest way to actually view this stuff is to rip it, so how effective is it really?), but my point is someone will, and you can find pretty much any movie you want on the internet minutes after it comes out on 4K, usually without looking very hard.

Im impressed with your attention to detail with color and video settings. I don't bother with that myself for home use as much as I should, i'm usually too tired.
Meh, thanks, but I just obsessively fiddle around with them until I like the colors, contrast and brightness. It's not like I know what I'm doing. }|:op
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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2019, 12:06:39 AM »
Fuck certificates. /EOM
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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2019, 09:30:05 AM »
#non-belief denialist

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Re: Tech Woes
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2019, 03:14:18 PM »
I have since got both of the servers I was struggling with correctly and successfully configured for SSL. But it was a huge pain.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

 

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