Author Topic: Episode #717  (Read 3493 times)

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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #120 on: April 29, 2019, 12:37:59 PM »
All that talk about thinking, kind of ironic.  The main argument against the plastic bag/straw bans is that not much thought went into them and when you think about it isn't actually a clear good to do so.  There are other trade offs to think about.

Well, let's start the thinking then. What trade offs? Surely we can think of a way to justify single use items made from finite resources that last for hundreds of years in the environment. That would be quite a relief. No more slacktavism and self back patting for me! Hell, I'll just be like the prat at the Quickie Mart who leaves his Ford F150 running while he goes in for corn dogs and smokes. Yippee.
Those trade offs have been discussed at length.  Carbon footprint of production of the alternatives being the big one, shifting consumption patterns to single use purchased garbage bag, etc.

Sure, and plastic pollution on the other. Sounds to me like we need to reduce both.
And its not clear whether the bag and straw bans do either.

We certainly have to do more. Staying the course is not a good option.

But if the bans don’t actually accomplish either goal, then as skeptics I don’t think we can support them.  At best they do nothing and at worst they make us feel like we’re doing something when in fact we’re not.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #121 on: April 29, 2019, 01:41:27 PM »
At worst it leads to a greater negative impact. Because people might think that because they're doing this thing that's good, it's okay for them to do more of other things that do damage, or do more of the same thing thinking that it's not bad anymore, or if it otherwise leads to not thinking about the choices we make that have a far greater impact.

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2019, 02:09:56 PM »

But if the bans don’t actually accomplish either goal, then as skeptics I don’t think we can support them.  At best they do nothing and at worst they make us feel like we’re doing something when in fact we’re not.

At this point, we don't know that they don't work. All that study showed was the carbon footprint of production and then it estimated the number of uses for alternatives to break even. I've been using mine for 15 years or more, easily thousands of uses. And I'd be willing to bet that for every single-use bag that gets reused, there are thousands that don't.

I'm all for *more studies* or even better ideas for transporting our crap from stores to home. I'm definitely not down on just willy nilly using plastic (or paper for that matter) just for the sake of convenience. Maybe there need to be surcharges or more education or whatever. At my store, you get a few percent of your total if you bring your own bags. That's why I said we need to think more. Not just me and you but grocery chains and movie theaters and ball parks.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 02:44:31 PM by gebobs »

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #123 on: April 30, 2019, 12:26:15 PM »
Where I shopped in Spokane, they gave you a discount of five cents per bag if you brought your own bags. Nobody cares about five cents. I never saw anyone bringing their own bags. I was probably not the only one, but there certainly were not many.

But in Revelstoke, B.C., the store I shopped at charged you five cents per bag and most people brought their own. I suspect the real difference, however, was that Revelstoke is an outdoorsy place and the people there are concerned about the environment. And when there I always shopped at the Co-Op, never at the Safeway (or whatever their big chain grocery store was).
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #124 on: April 30, 2019, 12:47:35 PM »
Where I shopped in Spokane, they gave you a discount of five cents per bag if you brought your own bags. Nobody cares about five cents. I never saw anyone bringing their own bags. I was probably not the only one, but there certainly were not many.

But in Revelstoke, B.C., the store I shopped at charged you five cents per bag and most people brought their own. I suspect the real difference, however, was that Revelstoke is an outdoorsy place and the people there are concerned about the environment. And when there I always shopped at the Co-Op, never at the Safeway (or whatever their big chain grocery store was).
Could just be a cultural difference.  As I understand it, Europe just never got in the habit of store providing bags to customers, maybe like most things, Canada just splits the difference.