Author Topic: Episode #717  (Read 3500 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2019, 04:43:48 PM »
A few years ago I visited the Burgess Shale. I had planned a week's hiking in Yoho national park, and had an unexpected day free. At the suggestion of the hiking guide who had become unavailable for that date, I booked the hike to the Burgess Shale. It's illegal to go there on your own. You have to book with one of the (two, I think) outfits authorized to take groups there. It is cool to be able to say I was there, but there really wasn't anything much to see, since our guide had forgotten to bring the key to the shed which had some fossil samples. We were allowed to wander around the shale slope that paleontologists had already picked through, where there were bits of fossils that we were allowed to bring up to a level area and leave there for others to see. It's illegal to take anything away from the site. I found a few broken bits of trilobites, laid them out on the level area, and took a picture. But I have better trilobite fossils that I've gotten from places where it's allowed to take them.

Honestly, the Burgess Shale was not nearly as interesting to visit as it was to read the book about it, Stephen Jay Gould's Wonderful Life.

It's exciting that now they have another early Cambrian site, with yet more fossilized creatures. But in a way the Burgess Shale remains the more significant one, because it changed our whole picture of the early evolution of multi-cellular creatures. It had been thought that diversity constantly increases over time. But the Burgess Shale showed that there was maximum diversity of basic body forms right after the Cambrian explosion, and then afterwards genera died out while the number of species within the surviving genera increased. I wish I was going to live long enough to read the book that someone like S.J. Gould will write about this new fossil bed.
Daniel
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 02:33:15 AM »
Oh god... maybe I'll have to listen to this episode...
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2019, 02:58:09 AM »
It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

What exactly do you think her views are?

Her view that calling it "The Mexican Wave" is racist or, at best, sounds racist. Which it clearly isn't. Not all terms with ethnic or National adjectives are racist.
I agree we should stop using terms that promote false or derogatory stereotypes of groups of people.

I just find it strange that she called her British colleague out for using it, when she doesn't even know the history of the term and made him stressful that he might use it.





Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2019, 03:24:06 AM »
It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

What exactly do you think her views are?

Her view that calling it "The Mexican Wave" is racist or, at best, sounds racist. Which it clearly isn't. Not all terms with ethnic or National adjectives are racist.
I agree we should stop using terms that promote false or derogatory stereotypes of groups of people.

I just find it strange that she called her British colleague out for using it, when she doesn't even know the history of the term and made him stressful that he might use it.

Kind of like saying 'Aussie rules' is a racist comment, if one hadn't a clue.
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Offline Phobosanddeimos

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2019, 03:25:14 AM »
I queried Cara on Twitter about the term for some clarification here is the exchange.

Hi Cara. Bit of an over reaction to say the term 'Mexican wave' is racist. It's simply because that is where Europeans first saw it.
Response
I didn’t say it was racist. I said it *sounds* racist to American ears, because of the intense anti-Mexican sentiment bolstered by our own president in this country. It’s a sad example of internalized racism. 😢

It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

"I said it *sounds* racist"
Not True.

To directly quote from the episode -

Cara Says -
"Wow that is *SO* racist..."

But then what do you expect from reality free 'Psych' quacks (emdr & cbt : fraud & abuse) :/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_(audience)
"1986 FIFA World Cup in Mexico -
The 1986 FIFA World Cup in Mexico was broadcast to a global audience, and the wave was popularized worldwide after featuring during the tournament.[16][17][18] The finals in Mexico was the first time that most people living outside North America had seen the phenomenon. As a result, English speakers outside of North America call the phenomenon a "Mexican wave".[18][17] "


Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 04:15:49 AM »
I was surprised Steve preferred dubbed over subbed in foreign shows (TV/Movies).

I don't mind dubbed in animated shows. But in live action TV or movies I find dubbing so annoying. It's as bad as watching a show with the sound out of synch. I can't take my eyes off the speaker's mouth.

I prefer sub-titles every time. Though those can be problematic, especially when the person doing the sub-titles is translating from their primary (foreign) language into English. You occasionally get slight grammatical errors or outright howlers at times  ;)  ;D

Offline lucek

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 05:17:53 AM »
I was surprised Steve preferred dubbed over subbed in foreign shows (TV/Movies).

I don't mind dubbed in animated shows. But in live action TV or movies I find dubbing so annoying. It's as bad as watching a show with the sound out of synch. I can't take my eyes off the speaker's mouth.

I prefer sub-titles every time. Though those can be problematic, especially when the person doing the sub-titles is translating from their primary (foreign) language into English. You occasionally get slight grammatical errors or outright howlers at times  ;)  ;D
I think i know what Steve is saying. Some people me included find that we can't get as invested flicking our eyez off the action and reading what was just said. It's just another way to loose immersion.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2019, 10:34:44 AM »
I was surprised Steve preferred dubbed over subbed in foreign shows (TV/Movies).

I don't mind dubbed in animated shows. But in live action TV or movies I find dubbing so annoying. It's as bad as watching a show with the sound out of synch. I can't take my eyes off the speaker's mouth.

I prefer sub-titles every time. Though those can be problematic, especially when the person doing the sub-titles is translating from their primary (foreign) language into English. You occasionally get slight grammatical errors or outright howlers at times  ;)  ;D
I think i know what Steve is saying. Some people me included find that we can't get as invested flicking our eyez off the action and reading what was just said. It's just another way to loose immersion.

It is harder to watch a subtitled movie than a dubbed one. But you lose so much that if the movie is well-made, dubbing ruins it. Typically the dubbing voice actors are not all that good, and you lose intonation. If I'm watching a cheap action movie, I want it dubbed. But for a good movie I want it subtitled.

I agree with Tassie Dave: I'm very surprised that someone as intelligent as Steve would prefer dubbed. Though on a small screen subtitles can be harder to read.
Daniel
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Online 2397

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2019, 11:48:02 AM »
Presumably a cheaper movie would also have cheaper dubbers.

I don't think I've willingly watched anything that's dubbed since children's cartoons, but I preferred to switch to English if I could. Donald Duck was more intelligible in English.

Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2019, 11:56:08 AM »
There is a huge controversy over dubbing versus subbed in the movie industry.

American films sent overseas are usually dubbed, and they do a pretty good job and that’s how most people overseas experience American films.

Movies from overseas distributed in America are usually subtitled, but the movie makers would prefer dubbing for two reasons.


First, the filmmakers spend a lot of time to get the composition of every frame of every shot just right. Or at least they should. The subtitles ruin that.

Second, American movie makers have the habit of remaking foreign films with American casts. But, they wouldn’t be able to do that if the films have already been released in the US with dubbed versions.


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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019, 12:08:02 PM »
I queried Cara on Twitter about the term for some clarification here is the exchange.

Hi Cara. Bit of an over reaction to say the term 'Mexican wave' is racist. It's simply because that is where Europeans first saw it.
Response
I didn’t say it was racist. I said it *sounds* racist to American ears, because of the intense anti-Mexican sentiment bolstered by our own president in this country. It’s a sad example of internalized racism. 😢

It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

"I said it *sounds* racist"
Not True.

To directly quote from the episode -

Cara Says -
"Wow that is *SO* racist..."

But then what do you expect from reality free 'Psych' quacks (emdr & cbt : fraud & abuse) :/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_(audience)
"1986 FIFA World Cup in Mexico -
The 1986 FIFA World Cup in Mexico was broadcast to a global audience, and the wave was popularized worldwide after featuring during the tournament.[16][17][18] The finals in Mexico was the first time that most people living outside North America had seen the phenomenon. As a result, English speakers outside of North America call the phenomenon a "Mexican wave".[18][17] "

Yeah, then she follows up by saying something like :it's probably not racist at all, it just sounds that way to my ears".  ::)
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 03:04:49 PM »
It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

What exactly do you think her views are?

Her view that calling it "The Mexican Wave" is racist or, at best, sounds racist. Which it clearly isn't. Not all terms with ethnic or National adjectives are racist.
I agree we should stop using terms that promote false or derogatory stereotypes of groups of people.

I just find it strange that she called her British colleague out for using it, when she doesn't even know the history of the term and made him stressful that he might use it.
I thought that was a bit odd too.  If anything calling it the Mexican wave is less racist than just the wave, at least the Mexican wave gives credit where credit is due.  I wonder what she thinks of *Mexican Coke*, French Fries, German Chocolate Cake.....,


*What everyone I know calls coca cola make with real sugar. 

In my youth I used to watch foreign movies on my PC with dub and sub when I could.  Just to see the differences.  Most streaming services don't give you both, I can't watched dubbed movies anymore, how could I play a video game and read the movie at the same time?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 03:07:50 PM by Ah.hell »

Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 03:32:12 PM »
It's political correctness gone too far. I do think CSM is an outlier in her views on this term.

What exactly do you think her views are?

Her view that calling it "The Mexican Wave" is racist or, at best, sounds racist. Which it clearly isn't. Not all terms with ethnic or National adjectives are racist.
I agree we should stop using terms that promote false or derogatory stereotypes of groups of people.

I just find it strange that she called her British colleague out for using it, when she doesn't even know the history of the term and made him stressful that he might use it.

Yes and yes. She told her friend that it was racist.

Mexican is not a race. And if you're of Mexican heritage the US government considers you white.

Racism specifically refers to race. But what about those members of various groups who have been discriminated against in the same way. Say the Irish in the early 20th century US; or Oklahomans fleeing the dust bowl in the 1930s?

The discrimination and prejudice against them was similar to racism, but racist isn't the word to describe that behavior.

I'm just not sure what the term should be.
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 03:52:26 PM »
If anything calling it the Mexican wave is less racist than just the wave, at least the Mexican wave gives credit where credit is due.

Negative. The wave originated in hockey and baseball before it was popularized worldwide in the '86 World Cup. It should be the Canadian Wave! :-)

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #717
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2019, 03:56:31 PM »
By the way, if anyone is near the Palm Beach Florida area, I see Robert Palmer is going to be talking about his work at the Palm Beach Natural History Museum on 26 April from 7 pm-9 pm.

http://www.pbmnh.org/

 

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