Author Topic: An atheist is advised to end a relationship with his religious partner.  (Read 2261 times)

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Online 2397

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I get the impression though that Denmark (and Norway) is more religious, or at least more traditionalist, than Sweden. But globally speaking, it would still be considered a very secularized society.
Norway is definetly more religous than Danmark. But it is kinda hard evaluate the extend of religious beliefs in Denmark. In january 2019 74.7% of the population is a member of the Church of Denmark, but there are many non-religious people amongst those. The high membership rate is more because of tradition than religion. When you're baptized, you automatically become a member, and most people uses the church for that, even though they're not religious, but because it's tradition. About 25% (according to the latest poll in 2015) are non-religious, and if you add up the members of the Church of Denmark, the non-religious and other religions like Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and other christian denomation, you get more than 100% - so lots of non-religious people are member of the Church of Denmark, because of tradition.

The following is a quote from wiki:
According to a Eurobarometer Poll conducted in 2010, 28% of Danish citizens responded that "they believe there is a God", 47% responded that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 24% responded that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God or life force". Another poll, carried out in 2008, found that 25% of Danes believe Jesus is the son of God, and 18% believe he is the saviour of the world. A gallup report in 2009 found that only 19% of Danes consider religion to be an important part of their life.

Not sure how you find it easier to evaluate the extent of religious beliefs in Norway. We have much the same situation with church membership having been so routine and imposed that many atheists don't even know that they're members. Others don't care and it doesn't matter to them. I try to remind people that they can leave online now.

While my very religious sibling left the church to sign up for a more conservative one, and now lives in Denmark with the person they met in Bible school and went on a missionary trip with. They have a worrying number of children together (I'm guessing they don't believe in prevention), that they then send to a private religious primary school.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:14:57 AM by 2397 »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I think Norway is perceived as more religious because the society seems to have more religious influence. For example, stores being closed on Sundays. I have also heard that if you buy an apartment, there are often rules against doing laundry on Sundays. The Church of Norway is also I think more conservative that its Swedish and Danish counterparts. See for example Helvetesdebatten. Confirmation is also a big thing in Norway.
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Online 2397

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I don't know how the former state churches compare. Though while Norway was the first country of the three to legalize same-sex marriage, the Church of Norway was the last of the churches to allow for it, so maybe that's an indication.

There's no specific rule about not doing laundry on Sundays. We have a law about keeping the peace on Sundays and other holidays. I can't see anything that confirms people aren't allowed to do laundry. It's more lawn mowers and building work that's not allowed. Which I think is good, there's enough noise in society. One day a week where it's possible to sleep in if you have neighbors, I'd change that to two days after we shorten the working week.

Which would be easier to do if we could ditch the remnants of Christianity that's still in the law. Keep the pieces that work, and get rid of the rest.

Offline bachfiend

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I think Norway is perceived as more religious because the society seems to have more religious influence. For example, stores being closed on Sundays. I have also heard that if you buy an apartment, there are often rules against doing laundry on Sundays. The Church of Norway is also I think more conservative that its Swedish and Danish counterparts. See for example Helvetesdebatten. Confirmation is also a big thing in Norway.

This year, I visited both Germany and Chile.  I would have thought that Germany is more secular (although I might be wrong.  Most of its public holidays are religious, although that might be from necessity - it’s difficult to have public holidays commemorating defeats in wars or the birthdays of ex-monarchs), however its supermarkets are generally closed on Sundays, whereas in Chile they’re often open, and even to late hours.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I don't think the amount of religion-inspired holidays necessarily determines the religiousity of a country. The information I can find suggests that Germany largely follows the trail of the rest of the Western world, with declining religiousity, especially among the young. A large minority is unaffiliated, and even among those who are religious, a lot of them are only nominally religious, with religion not playing a big role in society, most of the time.

Berlin is reportedly known as "the atheist capital of Europe":

Quote
These broad generalisations go some way to explain why Berlin has been dubbed the “atheist capital of Europe”. Some 60% of Berliners claim to have no religion, shaped no doubt by the city’s divided heritage. In 2009, a proposal to give religious lessons the same status as ethics classes in Berlin schools was defeated in a referendum. The proposal was backed by Chancellor Angela Merkel, but a low turnout of 30% revealed the lack of interest from the capital’s citizens. Ethics classes have been compulsory in the city’s schools since 2006, introduced after a so-called “honour” killing of a Muslim woman by her husband. Before the change, voluntary religious education classes were poorly attended.
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Offline bachfiend

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I don't think the amount of religion-inspired holidays necessarily determines the religiousity of a country. The information I can find suggests that Germany largely follows the trail of the rest of the Western world, with declining religiousity, especially among the young. A large minority is unaffiliated, and even among those who are religious, a lot of them are only nominally religious, with religion not playing a big role in society, most of the time.

Berlin is reportedly known as "the atheist capital of Europe":

Quote
These broad generalisations go some way to explain why Berlin has been dubbed the “atheist capital of Europe”. Some 60% of Berliners claim to have no religion, shaped no doubt by the city’s divided heritage. In 2009, a proposal to give religious lessons the same status as ethics classes in Berlin schools was defeated in a referendum. The proposal was backed by Chancellor Angela Merkel, but a low turnout of 30% revealed the lack of interest from the capital’s citizens. Ethics classes have been compulsory in the city’s schools since 2006, introduced after a so-called “honour” killing of a Muslim woman by her husband. Before the change, voluntary religious education classes were poorly attended.

Agreed.  I would have thought that Germany was largely a secular country.  But Germany does have a large number of religious holidays, including the 40th day after Easter Sunday, which falls on a Thursday.  Useless, if you want a long weekend, as we Australians want (our head of state Queen Elizabeth II has at least two different birthdays in Australia because her real birthday occurs at an inconvenient time of the year).

The 40th day after Easter is purportedly the day someone called Jesus became the first astronaut.  Some countries have it as a public holiday.  Some don’t.

https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/common/ascension-day

Indonesia, surprisingly, does.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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We have that day as a public holiday too (and a cross in the flag as well), and yet we are still one of the most secularized societies in the world. Religion has left various cultural vestiges like public holidays (and not all of out public holidays are religious either), medieval churches, paintings, etc, yet as a societal force in contemporary society, it is not influential. And I think that's what really counts, rather than various cultural vestiges.

Most people I have met here don't really care about religion, though I guess it might be different in rural areas or in our Bible Belt. Almost the only people I have discussed religion with at length are other skeptics.

That being said, Germany is a federation, and from what I know, some states there have quite a significant religious influence, relatively speaking.
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Offline bachfiend

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We have that day as a public holiday too (and a cross in the flag as well), and yet we are still one of the most secularized societies in the world. Religion has left various cultural vestiges like public holidays (and not all of out public holidays are religious either), medieval churches, paintings, etc, yet as a societal force in contemporary society, it is not influential. And I think that's what really counts, rather than various cultural vestiges.

Most people I have met here don't really care about religion, though I guess it might be different in rural areas or in our Bible Belt. Almost the only people I have discussed religion with at length are other skeptics.

That being said, Germany is a federation, and from what I know, some states there have quite a significant religious influence, relatively speaking.

In which country do you live?  In Germany, Accession Day is a public holiday both in Duisburg in the former West Germany and in Leipzig in the former officially atheist East Germany.  I know, because I was frustrated in both cities by the shops being closed, when I visited both cities for my religion, performances of Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
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Offline arthwollipot

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In many places, formerly religious holidays have been secularised. They are observed by basically the entire country regardless of religious affiliation. I'm an atheist, but I still have time off around Christmas, which is still called Christmas and not Yule or Solstice. Even people in the Muslim and Jewish communities have that time off, because it's a national public holiday.
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Offline bachfiend

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In many places, formerly religious holidays have been secularised. They are observed by basically the entire country regardless of religious affiliation. I'm an atheist, but I still have time off around Christmas, which is still called Christmas and not Yule or Solstice. Even people in the Muslim and Jewish communities have that time off, because it's a national public holiday.

Well, if religious holidays are secularised, then it’s not necessary to have them on the original day.  They could be shifted around for convenience like the Queen’s birthday in Australia, or to a Friday or a Monday to have a long weekend.  Accession day, occurring 40 days after Easter and on a Thursday shows that it’s still religious in nature.  And Easter still is religious, moving as it does depending on when the Full Moon occurs after the northern autumn equinox (the Passover - the angel of death apparently couldn’t see in the dark).

Christmas is a little different - it was co-opted by Christianity to replace the pagan celebration of the northern winter solstice.
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Offline stands2reason

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The 40th day after Easter is purportedly the day someone called Jesus became the first astronaut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wan_Hu


Offline Quetzalcoatl

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In many places, formerly religious holidays have been secularised. They are observed by basically the entire country regardless of religious affiliation. I'm an atheist, but I still have time off around Christmas, which is still called Christmas and not Yule or Solstice. Even people in the Muslim and Jewish communities have that time off, because it's a national public holiday.

Pretty much what I was wanting to say. :)

"Christmas" is a local variation. It is called "Jul" (i.e Yule) here, for instance.

And Christmas since a few decades is widely celebrated in Japan as well. Not for religious reasons, as there are very few Christians in Japan. Just a cultural influence that spread.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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We have that day as a public holiday too (and a cross in the flag as well), and yet we are still one of the most secularized societies in the world. Religion has left various cultural vestiges like public holidays (and not all of out public holidays are religious either), medieval churches, paintings, etc, yet as a societal force in contemporary society, it is not influential. And I think that's what really counts, rather than various cultural vestiges.

Most people I have met here don't really care about religion, though I guess it might be different in rural areas or in our Bible Belt. Almost the only people I have discussed religion with at length are other skeptics.

That being said, Germany is a federation, and from what I know, some states there have quite a significant religious influence, relatively speaking.

In which country do you live?  In Germany, Accession Day is a public holiday both in Duisburg in the former West Germany and in Leipzig in the former officially atheist East Germany.  I know, because I was frustrated in both cities by the shops being closed, when I visited both cities for my religion, performances of Wagner’s Ring Cycle.

Not all countries have stores closed on public holidays. At least we don't.
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Offline bachfiend

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We have that day as a public holiday too (and a cross in the flag as well), and yet we are still one of the most secularized societies in the world. Religion has left various cultural vestiges like public holidays (and not all of out public holidays are religious either), medieval churches, paintings, etc, yet as a societal force in contemporary society, it is not influential. And I think that's what really counts, rather than various cultural vestiges.

Most people I have met here don't really care about religion, though I guess it might be different in rural areas or in our Bible Belt. Almost the only people I have discussed religion with at length are other skeptics.

That being said, Germany is a federation, and from what I know, some states there have quite a significant religious influence, relatively speaking.

In which country do you live?  In Germany, Accession Day is a public holiday both in Duisburg in the former West Germany and in Leipzig in the former officially atheist East Germany.  I know, because I was frustrated in both cities by the shops being closed, when I visited both cities for my religion, performances of Wagner’s Ring Cycle.

Not all countries have stores closed on public holidays. At least we don't.

It’s not so much about the stores being closed on public holidays, but the stores being closed only on public holidays that are (or were) originally religious in nature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_hours

In Australia, generally stores are closed on Easter Friday and Sunday, and Christmas Day, but are open on other public holidays.
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Offline arthwollipot

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In many places, formerly religious holidays have been secularised. They are observed by basically the entire country regardless of religious affiliation. I'm an atheist, but I still have time off around Christmas, which is still called Christmas and not Yule or Solstice. Even people in the Muslim and Jewish communities have that time off, because it's a national public holiday.

Pretty much what I was wanting to say. :)

"Christmas" is a local variation. It is called "Jul" (i.e Yule) here, for instance.

And Christmas since a few decades is widely celebrated in Japan as well. Not for religious reasons, as there are very few Christians in Japan. Just a cultural influence that spread.

There's actually a very strong Christian tradition in Japan, stemming from when the Portuguese started messing in their wars in the 16th Century.
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