Author Topic: Episode #718  (Read 2082 times)

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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2019, 02:01:31 PM »
As long as it goes in the trash, it's just about the GHG emissions, not plastic pollutants (assuming it's burned). And it's probably significantly less than the emissions from the meat they eat.

So I'm hearing from you and Carbshark that the difference between plastic grocery bags and plastic poop bags, is that the grocery bags are more likely to end up in the ocean or as general litter problems.  ie, if grocery bags all made their way to appropriate landfills (the way my poop bags do) there would be no issue with them.


This is what I believe.  And, most plastic grocery bags do end up in landfill.

I won't go so fas as Dunning does and claim that limits on plastic bags are counterproductive, but it's basically trying to solve the problem where the problem does not exist.

The problem is in India and Asia. It's easy for us to do something in the US, but the something we're doing (limiting single use plastics) doesn't help much, if at all.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2019, 01:57:30 PM »
It may not be a problem in that sense, but using plastics made from petrochemicals once and disposing of them does seem like an unnecessary waste of resources.  there's two sides to this.  One is producing the bags, including use of raw materials, the demand it puts on the industry and the manufacturing process itself.  The other is waste disposal.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2019, 07:41:10 PM »
It may not be a problem in that sense, but using plastics made from petrochemicals once and disposing of them does seem like an unnecessary waste of resources.  there's two sides to this.  One is producing the bags, including use of raw materials, the demand it puts on the industry and the manufacturing process itself.  The other is waste disposal.
No argument there.

One, polluting the seas with plastics, is a critical issue of a severe magnitude that threatens the life of anyone who relies on the sea for foods

The other is a relatively minor issue and plastic bags and other single use plastics are   Minor steps.


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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2019, 07:37:14 AM »
Note that the largest source of plastic pollution in the oceans is fishing equipment being dumped in them.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastics-environment/
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 07:40:28 AM by 2397 »

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2019, 08:46:47 AM »
It may not be a problem in that sense, but using plastics made from petrochemicals once and disposing of them does seem like an unnecessary waste of resources.

But the study the SGU was talking about suggests that the resources required to create single-use bags are so far less than those required to create reusable ones that, for most people’s (re)usage patterns, they may actually have less environmental impact—at least on the production side.  That’s a core skeptical and lesson: what seems intuitive to us may in fact be wrong, and only by looking at actual data can we understand the truth.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2019, 10:31:06 AM »
What if we look at reusable bag production in the context of all consumer textiles? I suspect that the energy used would fade into insignificance, leaving post-use pollution as the much larger issue. Here in Hawaii plasic bags that find their way into the ocean are a serious hazard to marine life. Paper bags may use more energy, but that energy is tiny compared to all the other ways we squander energy, and the bags disintegrate in water.

Just a thought.

Also, "Most people wouldn't use them" seems like a poor argument against advocating the use of cloth bags.
Daniel
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2019, 11:59:39 AM »
Note that the largest source of plastic pollution in the oceans is fishing equipment being dumped in them.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastics-environment/
This is a very interesting article but its focus is not on plastic pollution in the oceans, but the plastics in one large area of the Pacific.

So while that supports my view that limiting consumer plastics in the US would have minimal impact on the amount of plastic pollution in the oceans it’s not definitive.


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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline ralfsen

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2019, 06:00:55 AM »
Cara from last episode: "I reached out to him and was like -Wow, that is so racist!"
Cara this episode: "First of all, I didn't say it was racist."

Ok then. Maybe go back and check what you said if you're unsure. It really couldn't be clearer.
I was just totally stumped as to why she thought it had to be racist when apparently she had no idea why it would be. Because Trump wants a wall? What? If you don't know what something means, you really need to find out before asserting that it is racist.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 06:07:37 AM by ralfsen »

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #718
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2019, 09:23:03 AM »
Planet money did an episode on the subject of single use bags.   I number of studies by various organization in different countries have had the same or similar conclusion. 

If you care about climate change, banning plastic bags is not the way to do it. 

They didn't mention the issue of plastic in the environment but their conclusion was basically use a reusable bag but don't ban the single use bags.  Charge for them.