Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS FOR LATEST EPISODES]  (Read 10347 times)

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Offline wastrel

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2019, 02:37:47 AM »
This episode was such bullshit, from beginning to end.

Sansa's character development through rape and abuse, Jaime dropping all his previous story arc and character development, the fridging of the only woman of colour for motivation, a bullshit teleporting fleet that knows the enemy's plans and is armed with magic, automatic self-guided ballistas, an unreasonable admiration for Jon just to seed pointless conflict and the ever more obvious Mad Queen arc that will make sure that the right clueless dude gets the throne...


Like how can you surprise and defeat a fleet that is supported by flying dragons that breathe fire? How?

The show just lost me completely. It is built on artificial contrivances, refuses to keep the rules of the world and isn't even surprising or fun to watch.
So why do you watch?


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I want to see it through.

Fuck that.  I refuse to believe you would be happy with literally any scenario. 

Offline Eternally Learning

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #151 on: May 06, 2019, 02:43:54 AM »
Yeah... I'm getting really tire of the contrived circumstances that are driving the story. 
- How in the absolute fuck did no one see that huge fleet over there; isn't a standard part of moving a military force to have scouts going ahead? 
- How is it that they managed to get Missandei and only Missandei among all that wreckage and swimming sailors; did she jump in a skiff and row past everyone needing help, directly to the enemy fleet? 
- If they have no more ships, how did they all get to King's Landing? 
- Why does Tyrion seem to be under the impression that Dany can't lose now and why does he expect Cersei and her ilk to hold the same view?  They've got their magic bullet for dragons in numbers too large for Drogon to avoid and Dany shows up to demand surrender with what, 50 Unsullied? 
- Why in the hell wouldn't Cersei just start shooting at Drogon and then fire on Dany and her pitiful excuse for a show of force?  You've got them right there and you know you do, and Drogon was definitely within the same distance range Rhaegal was when he was killed!  Take them out! 
- Why wouldn't Cersei take out Tyrion too?  She's already killing Dany's best friend and confidant in front of her because she knows Dany can't do anything at the moment and maybe is even hoping to bait her into a foolish attack; what does she stand to lose by filling Tyrion full of arrows and killing someone she's hated her whole life and ridding her chief rival of her principle adviser? 
- I get Jon's honor and loyalty to his family, I really do, but I don't buy for a second that he's so stupid to think Sansa isn't going to do exactly what she's doing now once she learned of his secret.  He's never been that dumb of a character and even though they are trying to say he just sees her as she was when they were little, there's been too much of a power struggle just between the two of them to think that she's that simple anymore.  Now maybe he takes the view that it's right to tell her and Arya and he can't control the consequences, but no way he's not fully aware of the match he's throwing onto a pool of gasoline.
- I've not really been one to jump on the train of outrage over anything negative that happens to women and non-whites in this show for multiple reasons that aren't really relevant right now, but Jesus effing Christ... this episode...  Missandei is a pretty obvious use of Fridging, Brienne is instantly turned from bad ass warrior into weeping lover watching her man go off to die instead of staying home with her, not a SINGLE mention was made of the Dothraki being essentially wiped from the face of the planet, and do we REALLY need scenes of women begging to be fucked by all the powerful men even if that is something that would reasonably happen?  Last but certainly not least, has no one considered that maybe... just maybe we should be past the point where a female leader is too emotional and unstable and must be replaced by a white male hero who doesn't seek power?  Like for fuck's sake people...
- How's is Tyrion's argument to Varys one of loyalty to a person over reason and what is right?  Why is he saying he believes she's a good person when she's literally saying she'll slaughter thousands of innocent people and write it off as just the cost of doing business?  Tyrion has never been as stupid as he's been the last few seasons.

I feel like the writers on this show desperately needed to watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGUNqq3jVLg?t=51
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 05:20:01 AM by Eternally Learning »

Online Rai

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #152 on: May 06, 2019, 05:21:30 AM »
I think at this stage we should ban men from writing female characters without assistance.

Fuck that.  I refuse to believe you would be happy with literally any scenario. 

I don't want it to make me happy, I just want to see how it ends and how they screw it up.


« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 05:23:48 AM by Rai »

Online Harry Black

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #153 on: May 06, 2019, 07:40:07 AM »
I dont think any episode has wasted my time more than this one?
Im amazed Ghost hasnt learned not to talk yet. He knows where to form up in battle (away from jon or any starks. Like why not have him in the crypt?!) Knows how to behave at a funeral and then to save CGI budget he has to back north? Just say you are leaving your dog at home like a normal fucking person.
You cant have scouts for a fleet and Euron is super experienced etc etc. But still- teleporting arrows? How much did they train with those fucking crossbows to hit a flying target at that distance while bobbing on the sea? But then miss the bigger target?
But fine. Ok. Lucky shots.
If Dany had banked around them and attacked from behind, the war would be over.

The above two things are emblematic of the problem with the shows writing- Everyone thought the dragon and ghost were already out. The teaser suggested they werent and then they go out in such contrived and pointless ways anyway? This show is like Zoolander trying turn left, they have to do a full turn right before they get there and waste our remaining time asking for applause for the flourish.
This episode took 80minutes to put Dany in front of Kings Landing with the same size force she SHOULD have had after that last battle and with the same conflict we assumed she had from last episode too.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #154 on: May 06, 2019, 11:27:47 AM »
Yeah, there were lots of confusing things from a practical perspective.  I don't see how anyone with a dragon gets surprised by a fleet, for instance.  And any bolt that could do the kind of damage those did to a ship, fired from a firm mount, would capsize the ship it was fired from.  And just how many months are we supposed to believe that Circei has had to develop these defenses?
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #155 on: May 06, 2019, 11:47:36 AM »
A lot of issues with this episode are the same as issues from last season.  Trying to fit too much in too little time.  We had no real frame of time between one moment to the next.  How long between Sansa promising to keep a secret and her telling Tyrion?  If it was the next day, like it looked, it means one thing; but if she struggled over it for a couple of weeks it means something else.  How long has it actually been since they carried the zombie to Kings Landing?


The mount on those ballista were on the prow so the force would be taken by the length of the boat, not the width.  I don't see how that much force would be needed in the bolt itself to do that kind of damage.  In real life we mounted cannons on ships that size firing out of the sides and I daresay the ballista doesn't have that much force.


They could not have been surprised by that fleet, but the could easily have been surprised by the ballista on the fleet. 




The writers have found themselves in a pickle.  In a world with no airplane and no gun, how do you fight someone with three dragons?  I mean, if it were at all realistic, there wouldn't actually be a fight to this.  So, they take out one dragon with magic (ice spear, whatever) and that leaves two.  Two dragons is still unbeatable.  However, if you take out one in a repeatable fashion, then the other is neutralized meaning there is now tension, now a threat.  Sure, the lucky shot thing is bullshit...but taking out dragons with arrows isn't exactly new to fantasy.


Again, if Dany had any brains at all, the siege is obviously the way to go.  The Iron Bank isn't going to just keep giving Cercei money for the Golden Company forever.
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Online Rai

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #156 on: May 06, 2019, 12:16:45 PM »
Maybe the writers should not make up contrivances to make an unbeatable army being beatable by one that cannot possibly win. That is not a pickle  that is not being able to write a compelling story and not understanding the source material.

Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #157 on: May 06, 2019, 12:21:21 PM »
They had no choice but be in this pickle.  Dragons grew up.  Dragons are basically undefeatable weapons.  By giving them to one side and not the other, you have a foregone conclusion, not a conflict.  Your other choice is either not having dragons at all, or giving Cercei dragons, or something that can kill dragons.  Here's where you are.


You might not like how they contrived to get themselves out of the pickle...and I can't say I blame you...but in this world with grown up dragons on one side and none on the other, you are going to have this problem.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2019, 12:59:39 PM »
- How in the absolute fuck did no one see that huge fleet over there; isn't a standard part of moving a military force to have scouts going ahead? 

It wasn't huge, but it was concealed in a fjord. By the time the dragons could see it they could see and shoot at the dragons.

Quote
- How is it that they managed to get Missandei and only Missandei among all that wreckage and swimming sailors; did she jump in a skiff and row past everyone needing help, directly to the enemy fleet? 

You don't know that. What we know is that she was sent to get on the skiff. It's entirely plausible that the skiff and anyone on it was captured, and she was the only one they let live.

Quote
- If they have no more ships, how did they all get to King's Landing? 

When did they say all their ships were destroyed?

Quote
- Why does Tyrion seem to be under the impression that Dany can't lose now and why does he expect Cersei and her ilk to hold the same view? 

Because he's smarter than we are?

Quote
They've got their magic bullet for dragons in numbers too large for Drogon to avoid and Dany shows up to demand surrender with what, 50 Unsullied? 

Now they know about the uber-bow-and-arrow they will adjust their tactics.

Quote
- Why in the hell wouldn't Cersei just start shooting at Drogon and then fire on Dany and her pitiful excuse for a show of force?  You've got them right there and you know you do, and Drogon was definitely within the same distance range Rhaegal was when he was killed!  Take them out! 

That's not a show of force, that's her parlay party.

Quote
- Why wouldn't Cersei take out Tyrion too?  She's already killing Dany's best friend and confidant in front of her because she knows Dany can't do anything at the moment and maybe is even hoping to bait her into a foolish attack; what does she stand to lose by filling Tyrion full of arrows and killing someone she's hated her whole life and ridding her chief rival of her principle adviser? 

It's a parlay and a negotiation. Even Cersei has some understanding of the protocols of warfare. 

Quote
- I get Jon's honor and loyalty to his family, I really do, but I don't buy for a second that he's so stupid to think Sansa isn't going to do exactly what she's doing now once she learned of his secret.  He's never been that dumb of a character and even though they are trying to say he just sees her as she was when they were little, there's been too much of a power struggle just between the two of them to think that she's that simple anymore.  Now maybe he takes the view that it's right to tell her and Arya and he can't control the consequences, but no way he's not fully aware of the match he's throwing onto a pool of gasoline.

He had no good options.

-
Quote
I've not really been one to jump on the train of outrage over anything negative that happens to women and non-whites in this show for multiple reasons that aren't really relevant right now, but Jesus effing Christ... this episode...  Missandei is a pretty obvious use of Fridging, Brienne is instantly turned from bad ass warrior into weeping lover watching her man go off to die instead of staying home with her, not a SINGLE mention was made of the Dothraki being essentially wiped from the face of the planet, and do we REALLY need scenes of women begging to be fucked by all the powerful men even if that is something that would reasonably happen?  Last but certainly not least, has no one considered that maybe... just maybe we should be past the point where a female leader is too emotional and unstable and must be replaced by a white male hero who doesn't seek power?  Like for fuck's sake people...

Was this the first "Game of Thrones" episode you've seen?

Quote
- How's is Tyrion's argument to Varys one of loyalty to a person over reason and what is right?  Why is he saying he believes she's a good person when she's literally saying she'll slaughter thousands of innocent people and write it off as just the cost of doing business?  Tyrion has never been as stupid as he's been the last few seasons.

That's oversimplifying Tyrion's argument and Daney's intention.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #159 on: May 06, 2019, 01:40:25 PM »
https://twitter.com/JennaGuillaume/status/1125291475699290113
Jenna Guillaume:
You're telling me they had TWO YEARS to put together a decent show and they couldn't even spot the goddamn Starbucks cup in Winterfell??!?! #GameOfThrones

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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #160 on: May 06, 2019, 01:47:32 PM »
They had no choice but be in this pickle.  Dragons grew up.  Dragons are basically undefeatable weapons.  By giving them to one side and not the other, you have a foregone conclusion, not a conflict.  Your other choice is either not having dragons at all, or giving Cercei dragons, or something that can kill dragons.  Here's where you are.


You might not like how they contrived to get themselves out of the pickle...and I can't say I blame you...but in this world with grown up dragons on one side and none on the other, you are going to have this problem.

They could find drama elsewhere.

Daenerys could win the war, lose the peace.  Undermined at every turn. Managed by her underlings.  Provinces start breaking away. Insurgency. Maesters poison her dragons. Or something.

Comedy Option: The NK could win.  He's an expert at ice magic and Dany can't even get her dragons to strafe a formation correctly.  At Winterfell, everyone dies.  Zerg rush the rest of the continent. Or maybe all of his strategies and goals center on collective consciousnesses and the weirwood net, he exposed himself just to get at Brann before Brann could adeptly use the weirwood net, too. So he sacks Winterfell, kills Brann and the dragons then fucks off.  Cersei wins. Everything equilibrates around her rule.

Or maybe a happy ending in three episodes?  Army of the Dead hits Winterfell while the NK hits King's Landing.  At Winterfell, without the NK's anti-aircraft fire, the dead are wiped out.  At King's Landing, courtesy of Cersei's hubris, the living are wiped out.  A R'hllor-like intrusion on Arya by the God of Death sets up the NK's death.  Dany takes credit for saving the North. Starks take credit for saving the South.  Dany & Jon fill the political vacuum by ruling from Winterfell.  Wall comes down. The top half of westeros starts to thaw. ~Fin~

Or something.  It's fiction. They can write it anyway they want!  Frankly, a lot of the fan theories are more entertaining than what we've been getting.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:50:44 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
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Offline Eternally Learning

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #161 on: May 06, 2019, 02:07:54 PM »
And just how many months are we supposed to believe that Circei has had to develop these defenses?

Now that you bring that up, it's worth pointing out that the baby she's telling Euron is his was conceived before Jaime left to attack Highgarden last season.  I figure that, bare minimum, it's been 2 months since then just from the time it took for him to move his forces there and back, for Dany to move her forces from there to Winterfell, and then for her to move her forces from Winterfell to Dragonstone.  And that's the most generous I can be considering the vast distances involved and the slow moving speed of an army of those sizes.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #162 on: May 06, 2019, 02:18:31 PM »
Hell, last night's episode probably covered the events of a couple of weeks, at a minimum.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2019, 03:03:14 PM »
... just how many months are we supposed to believe that Circei has had to develop these defenses?

We’ve known that she was developing the ADA (anti-dragon arrow) since sometime last season.


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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion [SPOILERS]
« Reply #164 on: May 06, 2019, 03:05:14 PM »
Bronn used one in 704.
"I think computer viruses should count as life. Maybe it says something about human nature, that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. Talk about creating life in our own image."
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