Author Topic: 5G and Weather Forecasting  (Read 451 times)

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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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5G and Weather Forecasting
« on: May 23, 2019, 07:58:19 PM »
Well, this isn't great.

Summary: Satellites scan 24 Ghz to track moisture. The FCC is auctioning off 24 Ghz for 5G.  This will set weather forecasting back decades.

Article: NOAA Warns 5G Spectrum Interference Presents Major Threat to Weather Forecasts
From: American Institute of Physics
Date: 2019 MAY 22

Quote
According to a recent analysis by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA, U.S. weather forecasting capabilities would be set back decades if the Federal Communications Commission proceeds with its current plans for opening a 24 gigahertz spectrum band to next-generation telecommunications providers.

...

At a House Science Committee hearing on May 16, Acting NOAA Administrator Neil Jacobs warned that U.S. weather forecasting capabilities could be severely degraded if FCC proceeds with its current plans for opening up a 24 gigahertz spectrum band it recently auctioned. He said NOAA and NASA have concluded that the out-of-band emissions limits set by FCC are insufficient to prevent interference with weather satellites’ ability to detect water vapor. He reported that FCC has disputed this analysis, taking issue with the input parameters NOAA and NASA used when modeling the interference impacts.

...

Jacobs explained that subject matter experts from NOAA, NASA, and FCC have been studying the issue since 2017 but have yet to reach agreement on appropriate emissions limits. Out-of-band emissions are signals that spill over from a particular frequency bandwidth but nonetheless contribute to the quality of the transmission. Jacobs said that NOAA and NASA have concluded the limit advanced by FCC, -20 decibel watts per 200 megahertz, would result in about 77% data loss from passive microwave sounders that weather satellites use to detect water vapor.

Describing the impacts of such a loss, Jacobs continued,

Quote
This would degrade the forecast skill by up to 30%. If you look back in time to see when our forecast skill was roughly 30% less than it was today, it's somewhere around 1980. This would result in the reduction of hurricane track forecasts’ lead time by roughly two to three days.

A good example of this is a data denial study that the European Center [for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts] did where they withheld the microwave sounder data during the forecast for Superstorm Sandy and the model, which is the most accurate model in the world right now, kept the storm out to sea.

If a data loss of 2% or more were projected, Jacobs said it is “highly likely” that NOAA would halt its current multi-billion dollar acquisition program for next-generation polar-orbiting satellites because they could no longer meet their mission requirements. He said NOAA and NASA believe a limit near -50 decibel watts would “result in roughly zero data loss.” Because the decibel scale is logarithmic, that limit would permit roughly three orders of magnitude less noise than the FCC level.

...

Fun visual aid from the article:


« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 08:02:22 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline lonely moa

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2019, 04:11:14 AM »
Well, this isn't great.

Summary: Satellites scan 24 Ghz to track moisture. The FCC is auctioning off 24 Ghz for 5G.  This will set weather forecasting back decades.


This is a critical issue in Aotearoa. 
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Offline wastrel

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2019, 04:23:32 AM »
Cell companies should need to pay to retool NOAA

Online 2397

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2019, 04:56:20 AM »
Personally I'm not that bothered about 5G, because there are no unlimited data plans here, so I almost only ever use WiFi. And 5G has the same problem WiFi does, it's not going to be available on the road.

What does 5G offer that couldn't be accomplished with dedicated public WiFi? Not that I'm advocating against it, but how important is 5G, how many deaths caused would be acceptable?

Offline superdave

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2019, 07:03:34 AM »
this is gross.   I worked in signal processing for a long time and can tell you 20 db loss is pretty significant. 
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Offline John Albert

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 07:32:55 AM »
Do you mean to tell me that a capitalistic government has seen fit to auction off to the highest bidder a public resource invaluable to the general welfare and public safety?


Offline daniel1948

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 12:37:46 PM »
Do you mean to tell me that a capitalistic government has seen fit to auction off to the highest bidder a public resource invaluable to the general welfare and public safety?

Yeah, whoever heard of such a thing?  ::)
Daniel
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 02:57:19 PM »
Do you mean to tell me that a capitalistic government has seen fit to auction off to the highest bidder a public resource invaluable to the general welfare and public safety?

Huawei
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Offline John Albert

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Re: 5G and Weather Forecasting
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 08:26:06 PM »
Do you mean to tell me that a capitalistic government has seen fit to auction off to the highest bidder a public resource invaluable to the general welfare and public safety?

Huawei

Huawei can't do that on its own. In the US, that authority to assign usage of radio frequency bands resides with the FCC.

 

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