Author Topic: Episode #721  (Read 1465 times)

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Online 2397

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Re: Episode #721
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2019, 02:20:15 PM »
If a group of skeptics, who are supposed to be experts on the topic of rational thinking, visited the CIA, I'd think that the first thing they'd talk about was the intelligence errors that led to the Iraq war, for instance.  It seems like a gold mine of motivated reasoning and logical fallacies.  I suppose that because the rogues are all American, they've been propagandized pretty thoroughly with the story that the Americans are the "good guys".

The CIA is a huge department. They have 20k employees and a $15b budget.

Very few analysts, accountants, statisticians or agents had anything to do with the Iraq war.

That's like complaining to the movie theater usher that you didn't like the dialog in second scene of the movie.

Or boycotting a theater chain where one of the board members, among others working for the chain, helped the government commit torture, and then became the CEO.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #721
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2019, 03:34:02 PM »
If a group of skeptics, who are supposed to be experts on the topic of rational thinking, visited the CIA, I'd think that the first thing they'd talk about was the intelligence errors that led to the Iraq war, for instance.  It seems like a gold mine of motivated reasoning and logical fallacies.  I suppose that because the rogues are all American, they've been propagandized pretty thoroughly with the story that the Americans are the "good guys".

The CIA is a huge department. They have 20k employees and a $15b budget.

Very few analysts, accountants, statisticians or agents had anything to do with the Iraq war.

That's like complaining to the movie theater usher that you didn't like the dialog in second scene of the movie.


I worked as a translator in a legal aid office. I didn't do any of the law work. I just translated letters and documents and informational materials. I had almost no direct contact with the people our office helped but I'm proud of the work I did because it was an ancillary part of the work the office did and was necessary in order for the office to function.

If instead the office had been an assassination company, my work would have been criminal even if I never killed anyone and never saw any of the victims and all I did was translate documents that the assassins needed. You cannot divorce yourself from the bottom-line work of the agency merely because your work there is only ancillary. If the agency is doing good you deserve credit. If it's doing evil, you deserve blame.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #721
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2019, 04:21:47 PM »
If a group of skeptics, who are supposed to be experts on the topic of rational thinking, visited the CIA, I'd think that the first thing they'd talk about was the intelligence errors that led to the Iraq war, for instance.  It seems like a gold mine of motivated reasoning and logical fallacies.  I suppose that because the rogues are all American, they've been propagandized pretty thoroughly with the story that the Americans are the "good guys".

The CIA is a huge department. They have 20k employees and a $15b budget.

Very few analysts, accountants, statisticians or agents had anything to do with the Iraq war.

That's like complaining to the movie theater usher that you didn't like the dialog in second scene of the movie.


I worked as a translator in a legal aid office. I didn't do any of the law work. I just translated letters and documents and informational materials. I had almost no direct contact with the people our office helped but I'm proud of the work I did because it was an ancillary part of the work the office did and was necessary in order for the office to function.

If instead the office had been an assassination company, my work would have been criminal even if I never killed anyone and never saw any of the victims and all I did was translate documents that the assassins needed. You cannot divorce yourself from the bottom-line work of the agency merely because your work there is only ancillary. If the agency is doing good you deserve credit. If it's doing evil, you deserve blame.

And what if the firm had been doing both? Say one partner out of dozens had been ordering assassinations.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #721
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2019, 09:08:35 PM »
If a group of skeptics, who are supposed to be experts on the topic of rational thinking, visited the CIA, I'd think that the first thing they'd talk about was the intelligence errors that led to the Iraq war, for instance.  It seems like a gold mine of motivated reasoning and logical fallacies.  I suppose that because the rogues are all American, they've been propagandized pretty thoroughly with the story that the Americans are the "good guys".

The CIA is a huge department. They have 20k employees and a $15b budget.

Very few analysts, accountants, statisticians or agents had anything to do with the Iraq war.

That's like complaining to the movie theater usher that you didn't like the dialog in second scene of the movie.


I worked as a translator in a legal aid office. I didn't do any of the law work. I just translated letters and documents and informational materials. I had almost no direct contact with the people our office helped but I'm proud of the work I did because it was an ancillary part of the work the office did and was necessary in order for the office to function.

If instead the office had been an assassination company, my work would have been criminal even if I never killed anyone and never saw any of the victims and all I did was translate documents that the assassins needed. You cannot divorce yourself from the bottom-line work of the agency merely because your work there is only ancillary. If the agency is doing good you deserve credit. If it's doing evil, you deserve blame.

And what if the firm had been doing both? Say one partner out of dozens had been ordering assassinations.

How is that comment relevant to an agency that exists to do crap that's so nasty that even the American people would not stand for it if they knew?

But I will answer your question anyway:

If one partner out of dozens is ordering assassinations and the other partners know and do nothing to stop it, then they are all accessories to the crime and the agency is a criminal organization.

(Somewhat off topic, the office where I worked was not a partnership. It was one section of a larger non-profit legal aid agency. Our office, and the larger agency as a whole, provided free legal services to poor people. Our lawyers were not partners, just employees. If they had been doing anything illegal and I knew about it, I'd have been an accessory. If they had been doing anything to hurt people and I had known and not tried to stop it, I'd have deserved blame.)
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Online 2397

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Re: Episode #721
« Reply #49 on: Today at 01:03:43 AM »
This is the current administration.

Quote
Trump May Be Preparing Pardons for Servicemen Accused of War Crimes

President Trump has indicated that he is considering pardons for several American military members accused or convicted of war crimes, including high-profile cases of murder, attempted murder and desecration of a corpse, according to two United States officials.

The officials said that the Trump administration had made expedited requests this week for paperwork needed to pardon the troops on or around Memorial Day.

One request is for Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher of the Navy SEALs, who is scheduled to stand trial in the coming weeks on charges of shooting unarmed civilians and killing an enemy captive with a knife while deployed in Iraq.

The others are believed to include the case of a former Blackwater security contractor recently found guilty in the deadly 2007 shooting of dozens of unarmed Iraqis; the case of Maj. Mathew L. Golsteyn, the Army Green Beret accused of killing an unarmed Afghan in 2010; and the case of a group of Marine Corps snipers charged with urinating on the corpses of dead Taliban fighters.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said they had not seen a complete list, and did not know if other service members were included in the request for pardon paperwork.

The White House sent requests on Friday to the Justice Department’s Office of the Pardon Attorney, which alerted the military branches, according to one senior military official. Pardon files include background information and details on criminal charges, and in many cases include letters describing how the person in question has made amends.

 

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