Author Topic: Episode #724  (Read 2807 times)

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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #724
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2019, 08:53:20 PM »
Quote
Then for a lot the things that are outside of your own field of expertise, you rely on others to tell you how do something.
OK, Science is every field of expertise, so that's not relevant.

I don't understand this statement. I'm pretty sure science is definitely not every field of expertise. I think you agree, based on your last statement:
At some point (the point where hypotheses cannot be disproven) this ceases to be science.
What did you mean?
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #724
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2019, 11:58:45 AM »
Quote
Then for a lot the things that are outside of your own field of expertise, you rely on others to tell you how do something.
OK, Science is every field of expertise, so that's not relevant.

I don't understand this statement. I'm pretty sure science is definitely not every field of expertise. I think you agree, based on your last statement:
At some point (the point where hypotheses cannot be disproven) this ceases to be science.
What did you mean?

I think if you read it in context it's clear. Science is a multi-disiplenary realm with numerous divisions and fields. So if one scientist is not an expert in the latest in another field of study, there are others who are. Many fields have many open questions science has yet to answer, and some fields have answers that are accepted but are wrong, but everything in the universe of what we can study scientifically is being studied.

As for they hypothesis, when we imagine things in distant worlds, like, for example, life developing without the oxygen, carbon, protein, RNA, DNA, genes and cells structures, with no way to disprove that hypotheses, it is no longer science. It becomes speculation or even science fiction.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 02:06:23 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #724
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2019, 12:09:31 PM »
There's a lot that can be answered by science that still relies on belief, because we don't have the time or the resources to rigorously verify and investigate everything.

The (or a, to not be so specific) problem is using the term belief as if it means something more than belief, opinion, feeling.

Examples?

Like the "is this chair real?" type of stuff. Or maybe "is that chair over there real?", since you'll soon figure if yours isn't. Then for a lot the things that are outside of your own field of expertise, you rely on others to tell you how do something. Or within your own field, or within larger systems, something could've become standard practice and people believe that it's the best way to do it, without having taken the time to challenge and investigate whether it is.

Such as school hours. Depending on what your goal is, when and for how long at a time should children be going to school? It's probably limited how many ways you've tested that, or what scale you can test it at, even if it's physically possible to do more.

As well as everything that we collectively haven't gotten around to figuring out yet, such as life on specific planets. Though it's not possible to investigate all other planets, due to distance, the energy required to travel, and the expansion of the universe beyond a certain point.

For some of the things you mention there is indeed evidence (I can, in fact see and touch my chair). For others there is in fact scientific evidence of which I can be aware even if I have not conducted the research myself.  About other things, like the optimal school hours, I am not aware of any evidence, and so I have no belief (that is to say, there is no position which I accept based on available evidence). That’s what I’m advocating: not believing anything falsifiable without evidence. As we have no evidence about the likelihood of abiogenesis, it is, in my opinion, unskeptical to express a belief about the existence or nonexistence of life on other planets in this solar system.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #724
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2019, 05:34:47 PM »
Quote
Then for a lot the things that are outside of your own field of expertise, you rely on others to tell you how do something.
OK, Science is every field of expertise, so that's not relevant.

I don't understand this statement. I'm pretty sure science is definitely not every field of expertise. I think you agree, based on your last statement:
At some point (the point where hypotheses cannot be disproven) this ceases to be science.
What did you mean?

I think if you read it in context it's clear. Science is a multi-disiplenary realm with numerous divisions and fields. So if one scientist is not an expert in the latest in another field of study, there are others who are. Many fields have many open questions science has yet to answer, and some fields have answers that are accepted but are wrong, but everything in the universe of what we can study scientifically is being studied.

As for they hypothesis, when we imagine things in distant worlds, like, for example, life developing without the oxygen, carbon, protein, RNA, DNA, genes and cells structures, with no way to disprove that hypotheses, it is no longer science. It becomes speculation or even science fiction.

I isolated the quotes for focus, not to decontextualize them. "Science is every field of expertise" is false, but I figured you meant something else. Thank you for explaining what you meant.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't