Topic: How to live more environmentally friendly, from a scientific point of view?

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm afraid it's not that simple. I personally own some stocks and funds, and I suppose many here on this forum do the same. I'd suppose most adults in the Western world do the same, in one way or another. We are all investors in some way, I suppose.

Sure   But do you set policy form the companies you own? 

Warren Buffet does. But we don’t.



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You are correct. I don't get to do that. I'm just an average guy investing some of the surplus I get, because it's the economically sensible thing to do.

[arthwollipot]

No. You should do all of that. Because it makes you feel good. I’m all for you feeling good.

Are you going to do anything?

Yes, I will and I am. I like feeling good too, but I don't get carried away and have any notion that it's actually making a difference.

Good. I disagree with you, obviously. I believe that everybody's effort contributes to the changing culture around climate. So even if you are doing it for selfish reasons, I applaud it.

[stands2reason]

I use public transport. I take my canvas bags when I go to the supermarket. I live in a city that will be powered by 100% renewable energy by October. I encourage people with defeatist philosophies not to be so defeatist.

It's not a lot, but it's not nothing. Culture is changing. Are you suggesting that we as individuals should just do nothing?

My first thought on starting the thread: make sure you're residence isn't coal-powered (i.e. maybe local politics, or something to consider when you're moving).

[arthwollipot]

I use public transport. I take my canvas bags when I go to the supermarket. I live in a city that will be powered by 100% renewable energy by October. I encourage people with defeatist philosophies not to be so defeatist.

It's not a lot, but it's not nothing. Culture is changing. Are you suggesting that we as individuals should just do nothing?

My first thought on starting the thread: make sure you're residence isn't coal-powered (i.e. maybe local politics, or something to consider when you're moving).

Well now here's a thing where I agree that something isn't going to do much to help. Even if you don't live in a coal-powered house, someone is. That house is coal-powered regardless of who lives there. Rather than moving to non-coal-powered cities, you should be encouraging your local authorities to switch to renewables wherever you happen to be.

[stands2reason]

On some level, that is true. I think I actually made that macroeconomic humility/futility argument on this board a few years ago in a similar topic about conservation. However, we already know coal is in long term decline. I wish I could say that marginal pressure won't result in another coal plant being built, but who knows. On the flip side, the marginal pressure from power customers could pressure the shutdown of coal even faster.

You can make a virtue ethics(?) argument: it actually makes a big difference to your overall carbon impact. And, if enough people did that, coal power would affect real estate values, and that might cascade.

Also, by not living close to a coal plant, you improve your overall health.

[Zelda McMuffin]

I recently heard an interview with George Will on On Point in which he argues that progressives have less respect for science and expertise than conservatives and uses climate change as one of the examples. Listen to the podcast if you want more context,
https://player.fm/1wSSZg #nowplaying,
but *here's the reason for this post*:

I made the mistake of checking out the Twitter comments on that interview and there are people on there trotting out 15-year-old arguments about how the policies that have been proposed to reduce the man-made part of climate change are unfair to developing countries and that all alternatives are bad, too, so why do anything, yadda yadda yadda... I'm so f*ing tired of seeing this bull pop up again and again.
Sorry to rant, but it looks like you guys are having a similar discussion and might at least have some advice on what to focus on when one is losing faith in humanity?

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[CarbShark]

I recently heard an interview with George Will on On Point in which he argues that progressives have less respect for science and expertise than conservatives and uses climate change as one of the examples. Listen to the podcast if you want more context,
https://player.fm/1wSSZg #nowplaying,
but *here's the reason for this post*:

I made the mistake of checking out the Twitter comments on that interview and there are people on there trotting out 15-year-old arguments about how the policies that have been proposed to reduce the man-made part of climate change are unfair to developing countries and that all alternatives are bad, too, so why do anything, yadda yadda yadda... I'm so f*ing tired of seeing this bull pop up again and again.
Sorry to rant, but it looks like you guys are having a similar discussion and might at least have some advice on what to focus on when one is losing faith in humanity?

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George Will is probably just as biased when it comes to climate science as he is when it comes to politics.

(He interviewed me and quoted me once in his Newsweek column)

[Zelda McMuffin]

I recently heard an interview with George Will on On Point in which he argues that progressives have less respect for science and expertise than conservatives and uses climate change as one of the examples. Listen to the podcast if you want more context,
https://player.fm/1wSSZg #nowplaying,
but *here's the reason for this post*:

I made the mistake of checking out the Twitter comments on that interview and there are people on there trotting out 15-year-old arguments about how the policies that have been proposed to reduce the man-made part of climate change are unfair to developing countries and that all alternatives are bad, too, so why do anything, yadda yadda yadda... I'm so f*ing tired of seeing this bull pop up again and again.
Sorry to rant, but it looks like you guys are having a similar discussion and might at least have some advice on what to focus on when one is losing faith in humanity?

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George Will is probably just as biased when it comes to climate science as he is when it comes to politics.

(He interviewed me and quoted me once in his Newsweek column)

That's got to be a strange feeling, having your name in a widely-read publication but (I'm guessing) not the way you'd like. Come to think of it, I wonder if that's most people's experience of media exposure.
I wasn't bothered by his political biases-- that's what his book is about, but he has an irritating smartest-man-in-the-room persona, yet never can walk from the beginning of an argument to the end without making some wild logical leap or, more often, wandering off topic never to reach the end point.

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[CarbShark]

He didn’t use my name, but it was cool.


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[Oh Henry]

George Will can eat a bag of dicks.  Is he still pushing the canard that science (aka Newsweek) was predicting global cooling in the 70's, as well? 

[Zelda McMuffin]

George Will can eat a bag of dicks.  Is he still pushing the canard that science (aka Newsweek) was predicting global cooling in the 70's, as well?

He has moved on to: other things cause global warming, too/climate is complicated; we can't do anything about global warming so we should just roll with it; global greening is going to be a good thing.

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[CarbShark]

No. You should do all of that. Because it makes you feel good. I’m all for you feeling good.

Are you going to do anything?

Yes, I will and I am. I like feeling good too, but I don't get carried away and have any notion that it's actually making a difference.

When my family replaces are already high MPG cars it will be with hybrids or all-electric (already have our first hybrid)
Switched from NG heating to electric (more expensive)
No public transport for me at work, but I telecommute whenever I can (2 to 4 days per week)
Buy locally sourced produce and meat
Plus there are a few things I can do at work that make me feel like I'm doing good and helping.

The biggest thing is supporting Democratic candidates that get it. (This is why I prefer Biden to Beto)

Man, how the fuck are we ever going to tackle this problem if we have to keep fighting uphill battles over gas guzzlers and lightbulbs. I'm not one to have a defeatist attitude on this issue, but some days...

I'm also doing one other thing (although the wife looks at me like I'm crazy).

Every time we go to the grocery store we're buying extra pinto beans, rice, flour, canned goods, coconut oil, salt or other survival/starvation foods. And we're putting it in vacuum bags, and putting those in five-gallon buckets and storing those in a safe place. We plan to keep this up, for a few years until we have about a year's supply of food for us, our daughters and their boyfriends. (1000 calories per day * 8 * 365). Our target will be about 5 million calories.

Food	Quantity (g)	Kilograms	In pounds	Calories	Fat	Protein	Carbs*	Fiber	Total Sugar
BEANS,PINTO,IMMAT SEEDS,FRZ,UNPREP	1,000	1	2.20	170,000	500	9,800	32,500	5700	0
RICE,WHITE,LONG-GRAIN,REG,RAW,ENR	1,000	1	2.20	365,000	660	7,130	79,950	1300	120
WHEAT FLOUR,WHOLE-GRAIN	1,000	1	2.20	340,000	2,500	13,210	71,970	10700	410
WHEAT FLOURS,BREAD,UNENR	1,000	1	2.20	361,000	1,660	11,980	72,530	2400	310
OATS	1,000	1	2.20	389,000	6,900	16,890	66,270	10600	0
OIL,COCNT	2,000	2	4.41	1,784,000	198,120	0	0	0	0
OIL,CORN,PEANUT,AND OLIVE	2,000	2	4.41	1,768,000	200,000	0	0	0	0
			19.84	5,177,000	410,340	59,010	323,220	30700	840

(I know, that's a lot of carbs, but come the day we're not trying to lose weight, we're in survival mode).

Plus I need to check my math, I may be off by an order of magnitude.

[Nacreous]

George Will can eat a bag of dicks.  Is he still pushing the canard that science (aka Newsweek) was predicting global cooling in the 70's, as well?

He has moved on to: other things cause global warming, too/climate is complicated; we can't do anything about global warming so we should just roll with it; global greening is going to be a good thing.

IOW, his pose as the "honest broker" conservative is as phony as ever.  He walks the right-wing climate science denialism line as much as Sean Hannity; he’s just more coy about it.

[Guillermo]

Every time we go to the grocery store we're buying extra pinto beans, rice, flour, canned goods, coconut oil, salt or other survival/starvation foods. And we're putting it in vacuum bags, and putting those in five-gallon buckets and storing those in a safe place. We plan to keep this up, for a few years until we have about a year's supply of food for us, our daughters and their boyfriends. (1000 calories per day * 8 * 365). Our target will be about 5 million calories.

Why coconut oil? That's pretty unhealthy, even for apocalyptic standards, And aren't they more expensive?

Also, will you rotate them every few years? Be sure to write down the date.

[CarbShark]

Every time we go to the grocery store we're buying extra pinto beans, rice, flour, canned goods, coconut oil, salt or other survival/starvation foods. And we're putting it in vacuum bags, and putting those in five-gallon buckets and storing those in a safe place. We plan to keep this up, for a few years until we have about a year's supply of food for us, our daughters and their boyfriends. (1000 calories per day * 8 * 365). Our target will be about 5 million calories.

Why coconut oil? That's pretty unhealthy, even for apocalyptic standards, And aren't they more expensive?

Not at all it’s one of the healthiest fats. It’s also one of the most stable and suitable for cooking at high temperatures.

Also, will you rotate them every few years? Be sure to write down the date.

Haven’t gotten that far. It will be difficult to rotate since we don’t normally eat those foods. But, yes we will date and inventory everything.


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