Author Topic: How to live more environmentally friendly, from a scientific point of view?  (Read 2027 times)

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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

If you google it, in my experience, you end up on environmentalist sites that encourage you to buy organic. As we all know, that is not very scientifically informed advice!

I don't own a car, though to be fair, it is really based in pragmatic reasons. I live in a city with good public transportation, so I don't really need it. Besides, cars are expensive, gas is expensive, and there are extra taxes to pay, and I wouldn't get to most places much faster as the city is quite crowded, so lots of traffic jam during rush hours.

About the most practically possible thing I can think of is eating less meat, or less animalistic products. And I really have cut down on my meat consumption, though I have not eliminated it. As an added bonus, it is good for health too. Western cuisines, from what I understand, have more meat in them than what is optimally healthy for humans.

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?

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"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline CarbShark

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 03:49:14 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline 2397

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I.e. vote.

But what we can do by making changes in our own lives is help spread the recognition of the need for systematic change. We need to know what we should be doing differently, to be able to get together and vote for what society should be doing differently.

And the main thing to do is less. Whatever you're doing that has a lot emissions, the best way to reduce the impact is to do it less. There's no way to compensate for extra emissions, as long as we have tens of billions of tons in excess already. It's fine if you want to pay someone to plant a tree, but to then do something massively polluting, that ruins it. That tree takes decades to grow, and we should be planting trees wherever there's room for trees to exist indefinitely, anyway.

Buying carbon credits doesn't help increase the potential of what we can do to combat emissions. But causing more emissions increases the total amount of emissions that we need to somehow counteract. It's much better to not do the thing that you want to not feel guilty about.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 04:01:55 PM by 2397 »

Offline CarbShark

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I.e. vote.

But what we can do by making changes in our own lives is help spread the recognition of the need for systematic change. We need to know what we should be doing differently, to be able to get together and vote for what society should be doing differently.

And the main thing to do is less. Whatever you're doing that has a lot emissions, the best way to reduce the impact is to do it less. There's no way to compensate for extra emissions, as long as we have tens of billions of tons in excess already. It's fine if you want to pay someone to plant a tree, but to then do something massively polluting, that ruins it. That tree takes decades to grow, and we should be planting trees wherever there's room for trees to exist indefinitely, anyway.

Buying carbon credits doesn't help increase the potential of what we can do to combat emissions. But causing more emissions increases the total amount of emissions that we need to somehow counteract. It's much better to not do the thing that you want to not feel guilty about.

Yes. Those will all make you feel better.

But, unless a wide majority of people on earth follow a similar approach, it's irrelevant.

Even voting doesn't help much.

I think the best thing any individual can do is invest in research into technology to dramatically reduce greenhouse gasses. But even then it will probably be too little too late.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline 2397

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Not sure why you think people can do more by investing than by voting. The problem with voting is private campaign financing and the rich elite having a greater influence than the one vote they should have same as all other individuals do. But outside of politics, wealth inequality is an even greater factor, and we're even more reliant on the rich independently deciding to act in our favor.

Offline arthwollipot

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

I completely disagree in every conceivable way. You can't change the behaviour of millions or billions of people without starting by changing the behaviour of individuals.
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Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiarii?

Offline CarbShark

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Not sure why you think people can do more by investing than by voting. The problem with voting is private campaign financing and the rich elite having a greater influence than the one vote they should have same as all other individuals do. But outside of politics, wealth inequality is an even greater factor, and we're even more reliant on the rich independently deciding to act in our favor.

Oh. OK, then we're all fucked.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline CarbShark

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

I completely disagree in every conceivable way. You can't change the behaviour of millions or billions of people without starting by changing the behaviour of individuals.

But changing the behavior of a tiny number of individuals is not enough to change the behavior of millions or billions of people.

Have you given up your car? Have you refused to buy anything that has to be transported more than 100 miles? Do you grow your own veggies and livestock (I know you do, Lonely Moa, but you're the exception).

If you have done even one of those things, then you can probably imagine how difficult it will be to persuade 100 people to do all of those things. Now try and persuade 1 million. Still won't be enough. It will take literally billions of people doing all of that, and that still won't prevent disaster, but just may be enough to avoid complete and total collapse (all that along with changing the way we build and generate electricity and make glass, etc.).

And, actually, you can change the behavior of hundreds of millions of people without starting with individuals.

Remember the CFC Ozone issue? We fixed that. We changed the propellents on everything from hairspray to asthma inhalers; we changed air conditioner technology; we fixed it.

Grass roots people choosing safe aerosols didn't make a difference. Government informed by and reacting to science did.

Those days are gone. Maybe we can bring them back in the US, but there's a whole big world out there and for once the US isn't the biggest problem.


and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline arthwollipot

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I use public transport. I take my canvas bags when I go to the supermarket. I live in a city that will be powered by 100% renewable energy by October. I encourage people with defeatist philosophies not to be so defeatist.

It's not a lot, but it's not nothing. Culture is changing. Are you suggesting that we as individuals should just do nothing?
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Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiarii?

Offline CarbShark

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No. You should do all of that. Because it makes you feel good. I’m all for you feeling good.




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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline CarbShark

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How do you get a billion people to do the same?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline arthwollipot

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No. You should do all of that. Because it makes you feel good. I’m all for you feeling good.

Are you going to do anything?
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiarii?

Offline Rai

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

I completely disagree in every conceivable way. You can't change the behaviour of millions or billions of people without starting by changing the behaviour of individuals.

The problem is that ig is not the behaviour of billions that need yo change, but that of a few dozen ultra-rich parasites, and they don't care. We know which companies are responsible for CO2 emmissions. You won't dismantle them (and prosecute their management), and you surely won't smash capitalism by eaying less meat or riding a bus. Without that, we are screwed.

Offline arthwollipot

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

I completely disagree in every conceivable way. You can't change the behaviour of millions or billions of people without starting by changing the behaviour of individuals.

The problem is that ig is not the behaviour of billions that need yo change, but that of a few dozen ultra-rich parasites, and they don't care. We know which companies are responsible for CO2 emmissions. You won't dismantle them (and prosecute their management), and you surely won't smash capitalism by eaying less meat or riding a bus. Without that, we are screwed.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
- Margaret Mead
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiarii?

Offline Rai

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We all are, I hope, concerned about climate change. We all, I hope, keep it in mind whenever we get a chance to vote in our various elections. But how can we live more environmentally friendly in our daily lives?

...

What practical tips do you have to live more environmentally friendly, from a skeptical/scientific point of view?


Nothing.

Anything you do as an individual has a minuscule and irrelevant effect.

The key is to make sweeping changes in the behavior of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. Anything short of that might make you feel good but it doesn’t do shit.

I completely disagree in every conceivable way. You can't change the behaviour of millions or billions of people without starting by changing the behaviour of individuals.

The problem is that ig is not the behaviour of billions that need yo change, but that of a few dozen ultra-rich parasites, and they don't care. We know which companies are responsible for CO2 emmissions. You won't dismantle them (and prosecute their management), and you surely won't smash capitalism by eaying less meat or riding a bus. Without that, we are screwed.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
- Margaret Mead

You mean

 

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