Author Topic: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum  (Read 2338 times)

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Offline stands2reason

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2019, 04:49:27 PM »
Obviously, having content separated by sub-board makes it that much easier to filter content. As I see it, the actual goal of closing the Politics sub-board is probably to make politics leak into other areas; in effect the concern trolls are trying to create the problem that they pretend this site already has, which has been a consistent theme for a while.

On some level this conversation is sarcastic; it seems like most who complain over the Politics board are active posters in the board. Further, there seems to be correlation between how much someone complains about the Politics board, and how poorly they argue in it.

The short answer is that everything that makes the Politics board a problem on this site is already against the rules. However, it is not so much that moderators are not doing their job in the Politics board, but also that certain moderators break the rules in the Politics board and contribute to the kind of discourse that supposedly makes the Politics board a problem.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2019, 06:25:51 PM »
hahahahah. Yes. The answer is reopening the closed-off cesspools. Brilliant.

If you think the Politics board creates contentious conversations, just wait till you get a load of the Feminism and Global Warming boards.

How so? Sure, I could see Feminism generating some heat, but Global Warming? Are there any climate deniers active here?
"I appear as a skeptic, who believes that doubt is the great engine, the great fuel, of all inquiry, all discovery, and all innovation" - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2019, 06:26:51 PM »
I'm assuming you're playing devil's advocate.

In a way, yes. I think a case can be made for it. Not sure if I'd buy it. I wanted to see how far it can fly.
"I appear as a skeptic, who believes that doubt is the great engine, the great fuel, of all inquiry, all discovery, and all innovation" - Christopher Hitchens

Offline random poet

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2019, 07:08:36 PM »
hahahahah. Yes. The answer is reopening the closed-off cesspools. Brilliant.

If you think the Politics board creates contentious conversations, just wait till you get a load of the Feminism and Global Warming boards.

How so? Sure, I could see Feminism generating some heat, but Global Warming? Are there any climate deniers active here?
Yes. That's why it was created in the first place, and also why it closed. Basically.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2019, 07:17:01 PM »
If we dont have a subforum for an area so impacting on peoples lives and so desperately in need of skeptical analysis then it will just spill over into other sub forums and solve nothing.

Harry beat me to it!

I do not like politics and right now, with a fucking pustule of a racist baboon in the White House, I do my best to avoid political news and discussions. Keeping the politics forum open keeps all the stinking garbage that is political discussion in one place that I can avoid. Occasionally I cannot resist commenting in a politics thread, but mostly I see "politics" and don't click on the thread.

Keep the forum so I can avoid the topic. People will discuss politics and without draconian moderation would bring it all into the other forums. This way those who want to discuss it can, and those who don't want to can stay out. (I don't use the Ignore function. I just don't click on those threads. Mostly.)
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Offline superdave

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2019, 07:56:11 PM »
the intersection of politics and skepticism is arguably the most important part of the movement.  this idea is absurd.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 08:16:03 PM »
I have no opinion because I use Unread Posts so I basically ignore what subforum any particular thread is in, but I thought I'd butt in to make an observation. There are a lot of threads about American politics on this forum. I mean it's reasonable because the majority of posters are American, but still. You lot really want to talk about your politics.
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 08:56:07 PM »
If you don't like, feel free to Brexit.


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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 09:17:57 PM »
Would that be frexit?
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Offline superdave

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2019, 09:14:59 AM »
I have no opinion because I use Unread Posts so I basically ignore what subforum any particular thread is in, but I thought I'd butt in to make an observation. There are a lot of threads about American politics on this forum. I mean it's reasonable because the majority of posters are American, but still. You lot really want to talk about your politics.

That's  not true!!!!

---reviews post counts---

Never mind!
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Offline Nosmas

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2019, 11:18:12 AM »
If we dont have a subforum for an area so impacting on peoples lives and so desperately in need of skeptical analysis then it will just spill over into other sub forums and solve nothing.

Harry beat me to it!

I do not like politics and right now, with a fucking pustule of a racist baboon in the White House, I do my best to avoid political news and discussions. Keeping the politics forum open keeps all the stinking garbage that is political discussion in one place that I can avoid. Occasionally I cannot resist commenting in a politics thread, but mostly I see "politics" and don't click on the thread.

Keep the forum so I can avoid the topic. People will discuss politics and without draconian moderation would bring it all into the other forums. This way those who want to discuss it can, and those who don't want to can stay out. (I don't use the Ignore function. I just don't click on those threads. Mostly.)

I beat you both to it. I was just more long-winded. ;D

Now that I've looked back on it, I think many of the most recent combative threads weren't in politics. I use the unread posts like arthwollipot, so I had just been assuming those threads were in politics.
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Offline seamas

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2019, 12:27:44 PM »
Discussing politics might bother people, but in a "free" society I have more of a fear of people who avoid politics completely--to the point of not voting, or ignoring what is going on in their local communities.

I don't know how much or how little skepticism plays into politics, but there has been an alarming trend in recent years where politicians have gone from the old way of "weasel words and changing the subject" to outright lying about facts, we more than ever need to spread skeptical analysis and critical thinking--so I think it should play a part.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2019, 08:21:36 AM »
I think that closing the Politics subforum is a very bad idea.

There's no reason why skepticism and critical thinking cannot be applied to politics, as it is with anything else. Critical analysis of political issues is imperative to being a properly informed voter, and that's the foundation on which every democratic government depends.

The fact that people disagree and tend to argue about their differences might get uncomfortable sometimes, but it's actually a good thing. That's skeptical discourse in actual practice. It means that ideas are being challenged instead of just being accepted on abject faith.

Instead of trying to squelch all disagreement by shutting down topical conversation, a more productive approach might be to simply encourage respect and charity toward those with whom we disagree.

...and like others have said, it's pretty easy to put the Politics subforum on "Ignore," and avoid reading the kinds of conversations you don't like.

I very much agree that political claims should be subject to skeptical scrutiny. But I don't think that much of that happens on that sub-forum. You don't see many exchanges of views that refer to data and facts between people of different views in there. Is there any example of a discussion in there that made someone change his or her mind?

Of course we should all strive to have an as accurate understanding of the world as possible, and cast informed votes.

I find it funny that several people in this thread argue that the Politics sub-forum is a sort-of harm reduction. "Yes it's bad, but at least then it can be contained there."
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 08:28:16 AM by Quetzalcoatl »
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2019, 08:25:01 AM »
I mean it's reasonable because the majority of posters are American, but still. You lot really want to talk about your politics.

Unfortunately, some of them also think that the rest of the world comfortably sort themselves into their domestic political tribes. Newsflash: If I disagree with some American liberal position, it doesn't follow that I am an adherent of American conservatism who listens to Republican talk radio.
"I appear as a skeptic, who believes that doubt is the great engine, the great fuel, of all inquiry, all discovery, and all innovation" - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Calinthalus

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Re: A proposition: Close the Politics sub-forum
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2019, 08:29:26 AM »
I enjoy the politics section, so I'm probably biased.  However, I'm not sure what the goal here is.  If your contention is that we should only have skepticism directed content here, then this place will likely die.  Look at the majority of traffic.  It's pop-culture, or political, or discussing current events, or games.  Sure, there's chat about anti-vaxers and other miscreants...but we haven't had a real woobag here arguing with us in ages.  So it becomes just an echo chamber.


In truth, arguing amongst ourselves sharpens our claws, as it were.  As long as we can keep it civil and respect our opponents we can increase our skills and/or change our minds.  Either is a good result.  It doesn't matter if we are arguing over the last season of GoT or we are arguing over gun ownership or vaccine schedules.


I agree that there are some tendencies to sort people into tribes and I'd rather argue about specific stances.
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