Author Topic: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?  (Read 623 times)

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Offline mindme

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2019, 09:39:36 AM »
A recent ep of Monster Talk the guest Jerry Drake made an aside to the concept of the Influencing Machine. It's a way for schizophrenic people to externalize the voices they're hearing inside their heads. Think of the Son of Sam who thinks his dog told him to kill. Drake wondered how much of ancient religion/mythology is really the result of the Influence Machine.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2019, 10:33:48 AM »
I can certainly believe that all religions were started by schizophrenics. Sociopathic schizophrenics.
Daniel
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Offline Dr Barton

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2019, 08:35:13 PM »
Having done some research into this topic for a book that I have stalled on writing, I want to say that:

1) yes, much of the "Bible" is fiction but successful fiction is often based on cultural themes, otherwise, the audience wouldn't understand them and

2) a lot of the biblical stories are easier to understand if filtered through a shamanic lens and that includes entheogen-use.

The Moses story is so cross-edited that, in my opinion, it is difficult to say how much of it might reflect actual entheogenic experiences. There are, however, clearer examples. The book of "Jonah", for instance, seems to reflect a jeckylltropic experience (tropanes, probably Datura). It actually references the kykeon of the Eleusinian Mysteries which is held by some scholars to be possibly or probably entheogenic. There is also the use of "strong drink" (shekar) for which I have proposed, using Isa 20:1-9 and a canaanite text (RS 22.258), was probably an entheogenic substance. Indeed, when RS 24.258 is examined using the ayahuasca ritual as a model, it becomes much more understandable, suggesting that shekar might have been an ayahuasca analog made with local plants (acaciahuasca as Dr. Benny Shannon called it). Other aspects of Dr. Shanon's article, "Biblical Entheogens", and Dan Merkur's books, Mystery of Manna" and "Psychedelic Sacrament", are worth reading even if they are, in my opinion, rather unsupported in some areas.

Although I can't find any archaeological justification for the now-popular theory the the kanah-besom of the temple incense (Exo 30:23) was cannabis, the possibility that it incorporated some hallucinogenic components is not unreasonable.

If you're interested: "a New Model for Interpreting RS 24.258 https://www.academia.edu/38920565/A_New_Model_for_Interpreting_RS_24.258
"Biblical Entheogens" (behind a paywall, unfortunately) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/175169608783489116
"Mystery of Manna" https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Manna-Psychedelic-Sacrament-Bible/dp/0892817720/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=dan+merkur&qid=1565137804&s=books&sr=1-5
"Psychedelic Sacrament" https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Sacrament-Meditation-Mystical-Experience/dp/089281862X/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=dan+merkur&qid=1565138022&s=books&sr=1-7

Offline John Albert

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2019, 03:58:15 PM »
a lot of the biblical stories are easier to understand if filtered through a shamanic lens and that includes entheogen-use.

Once while tripping, my friends and I watched The Super Mario Bros TV Show, and we all agreed it may have been the most profound thing ever made.

Drop enough psychedelics and your brain will fool itself into thinking you "understand" pretty much anything. That's not evidence that the authors of The Bible were actually tripping while they wrote that garbage.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2019, 11:43:22 PM »
Psychedelics may have played a part in the development of some of the old mythology, but it seems unlikely to me that the authors of the books of the Bible were under the influence of anything other than garden-variety superstition. People are seldom coherent enough to write stuff like the Bible when they're stoned.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 06:41:38 AM »
Drug enthusiasts often convince themselves that their drugs of choice make them more creative.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Did religion arise from a long strange trip?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 11:32:35 AM »
Drug enthusiasts often convince themselves that their drugs of choice make them more creative.

True.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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