Author Topic: Grammar Questions and Observations  (Read 1264 times)

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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2019, 12:29:57 PM »
I can’t believe they said, “We should make healthcare illegal?”!

But better would now use a direct quote here at all:

I can’t believe they asked whether we should make healthcare illegal!

I think the Spanish use of special punctuation makes more sense, i.e. question marks and exclamations have an open and close, just like quote marks. This removes ambiguity. I think it also means you can make only a clause in a sentence a question or exclamation, but I don't really know the grammar rules that well.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2019, 06:50:01 PM »
"He shot" can be a vernacular form of "He has been shot".  McWorter had a whole episode on similar constructions.  I have surrendered to the vector of English evolution.

You mean this guy (https://slate.com/human-interest/lexicon-valley/) ? Which episode?

The episode "When Ain't Was Alright" is a very good place to start. It examines the evolution of so-called "improper" contractions in the English language, and common misconceptions about their origins and usage.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2019, 07:11:59 PM »
Was it alright, or all right?

Offline John Albert

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2019, 07:36:17 PM »
You gotta listen to find out!

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2019, 09:39:39 PM »
Here's another peeve: dangling participle. Anyone who does this should be shot at.

(click to show/hide)

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2019, 02:33:36 AM »
Here's another peeve: dangling participle. Anyone who does this should be shot at.

(click to show/hide)

That's not a dangling participle; it's a misplaced modifier. A dangling participle is one whose intended noun is not present in the sentence; in this case, 'you' is the noun 'hiding under the floor boards' is intended to modify, and it is plainly present in the sentence. You can reword the sentence to make it work without adding anything, just by rearranging it: 'I have finally found you hiding under the floor boards.'

A dangling participle would be something like, 'Hiding under the floor boards, the air was stuffy.' You cannot fix it without adding a noun for hiding to modify: 'Hiding under the floorboards, I found the air stuffy.'
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 02:35:56 AM by The Latinist »
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2019, 09:59:51 AM »
My bad, dangling preposition.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2019, 11:06:23 AM »
My point is that the video does not use the term correctly.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline CookieMustard

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2019, 03:17:32 PM »
My point is that the video does not use the term correctly.

I believe the term was used correctly.  The point is the dangling doesn't refer to the  subject of the following phrase. The rearranging procedure for dangling participles says to move the phrase after the subject. In this case: I, hiding under the floorboards, have finally found you.

As a reference I am using "A Guide to Grammar and Style" by Lynch.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2019, 04:18:11 PM »
A participial phrase does not have to modify a subject; it is perfectly fine to use it to modify the object, as was the intent here. The problem is its positioning, not that it's dangling. Again, a dangling participle is one which modifies a noun not present in the text, not one which is simply misplaced in the sentence.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline CookieMustard

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Re: Grammar Questions and Observations
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2019, 04:58:09 PM »
A participial phrase does not have to modify a subject; it is perfectly fine to use it to modify the object, as was the intent here. The problem is its positioning, not that it's dangling. Again, a dangling participle is one which modifies a noun not present in the text, not one which is simply misplaced in the sentence.

The only conclusion I can draw from what you say is that grammarians don't all agree on some of the finer points of what constitutes a dangling participle so it is at least debatable that the term was used correctly in the video.  Apart from the reference work I cited, the Oxford Dictionary of Grammar also disagrees with you.  This book gives the following quote from Shakespeare as an example of a dangling participle: "Sleeping in mine orchard, a serpent stung me." According to this book it is the misplacement that makes it dangling. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but (given the somewhat arbitrary nature of  some aspects of grammar) that it seems that some grammarians disagree on what a dangling participle is. 

 

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