Author Topic: Dog food and heart disease  (Read 468 times)

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Offline Captain Video

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Dog food and heart disease
« on: July 01, 2019, 05:57:17 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/29/us/dog-food-heart-disease-fda.html

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The Food and Drug Administration identified 16 brands of dog food that had been linked to heart disease in dogs, according to a report the agency published on Thursday.

American Kennel club

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-fdas-grain-free-diet-alert/

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In the FDA’s July 2019 update on diet and canine heart disease, they examined labels of dog food products reported in DCM cases to determine whether the foods were “grain-free” (defined as no corn, soy, wheat, rice, barley or other grains), and whether the foods contained peas, lentils, chickpeas, beans, or potatoes (including sweet potatoes). Their report states that more than 90 percent of foods reported in DCM cases were grain-free, 93 percent of reported foods contained peas and/or lentils, and 42 percent contained potatoes/sweet potatoes.

According to Dr. Klein, “At this time, there is no proof that these ingredients are the cause of DCM in a broader range of dogs, but dog owners should be aware of this alert from the FDA. The FDA continues to work with veterinary cardiologists and veterinary nutritionists to better understand the effect, if any, of grain-free diets on dogs.”

here is the report

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/news-events/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

these are the brands listed

Quote
Acana, Zignature, Taste of the Wild, 4Health, Earthborn Holistic, Blue Buffalo, Nature’s Domain, Fromm, Merrick, California Natural, Natural Balance, Orijen, Nature’s Variety, NutriSource, Nutro and Rachael Ray Nutrish.

I have used some of these brands in the past but have since changed to preparing my dogs food myself. She has digestive issues and I now only feed her chicken and rice.





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Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 06:07:28 PM »
It's tricky (and I've been watching from the sidelines as my veterinarian wife is handling questions on her Facebook page) - the FDA statement only covers products from those brands that are specifically labelled as "grain-free", not all of their product lines across the board.
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Offline Captain Video

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 06:26:47 PM »
On the surface it seams like the peas are the problem but it also looks like they don't actually know anything yet. 

My dogs breed is not on the list but thats not surprising as Cresties have so many varied issues with food, digestion and their skin I don't know how you would narrow it down. She certainly does poorly with corn and wheat.

Im surprised more people have not moved to making the food themselves, I save money compared to the high priced grain free stuff. The rice concerns me but my vet approves and if I feed her straight meat she goes back to watery stool.  He thinks she has colitis, poor thing.  Im guessing it has nothing to do with the heart disease study.

I hope they figure this out.
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2019, 09:17:25 AM »
Grains are fine for dogs, and include good nutrients at a low cost. I never understood why some people have gone grain free if the dog is not allergic.
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Offline Captain Video

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2019, 01:11:43 PM »
Grains are fine for dogs, and include good nutrients at a low cost. I never understood why some people have gone grain free if the dog is not allergic.

But now it looks like some grains or legumes are possibly causing heart disease.

Usually when it says grain free they actually mean corn and wheat free.  While those grains mite be ok for a non allergic dog to eat are they really "healthy" for the dog?  Isn't that like feeding a human kid a diet rich in corn chips? Some mite be ok but 90% of the diet like most commercial dog foods?

My dog gets bad zits and blackheads when eating that stuff which is not allergy related but as I said before I have a special case dog breed.
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2019, 03:43:50 PM »
Rather than saying it's healthy, it's better said that it is not harmful. It's not a matter of health, but cost and nutrition. You can make the same nutritious meal for cheaper cost by picking cheaper ingredients, as long as your nutritional requirements are met.

Corn and wheat and Soy contain Crude Protein, and Carbs that the dog can safely digest, that would reduce the cost of adding those nutrients by themselves. On top of that, grains are great for binding the biscuits.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2019, 05:17:49 PM »
Grains are fine for dogs, and include good nutrients at a low cost. I never understood why some people have gone grain free if the dog is not allergic.

Have they done lifespan randomized double blinded studies between dogs raised on grain and dogs raised on meat? Since their lifespan is relatively short that seems doable.
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2019, 05:42:08 AM »
Grains are not particularly healthy for humans and dogs being more naturally carnivorous than humans would lead me to believe that fading dogs a meat based diet rather than a grain based one would be beneficial.  That's why we feed ours (very active working dogs) a meat based diet (some vegetables).
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2019, 10:04:56 AM »
Like I said, the term healthy is not a particularly accurate term.

Certainly a meat based diet on a dog is more appropriate, but dogs can digest grains, so they can obtain nutrients from that. It is more efficient to digest meat, but more costly. So, hence why the industry uses grain based feed for dogs.
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2019, 10:17:14 AM »
Grains are fine for dogs, and include good nutrients at a low cost. I never understood why some people have gone grain free if the dog is not allergic.

Have they done lifespan randomized double blinded studies between dogs raised on grain and dogs raised on meat? Since their lifespan is relatively short that seems doable.
I don't know. All I know is what the industry has been doing for more than 50 years. Which is based on Nutrition research and cost effectiveness, as it is with all feed for all animals.

I do know that Double blinded studies have been done on most domesticated animals to reach the expected outcome, which is more meat for less feed.
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Offline Captain Video

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 03:15:51 PM »
I have read about increased diabetes rates in dogs, Its hard to sort out the woo when researching dog health.

I'm just layman speculating here,

It seems to me its the same thing as feeding a human nothing but breakfast cereal soaked in chicken stock and a little bacon grease. You could live off of it but "the term healthy is not a particularly accurate"

Grains mite be ok to feed dogs because they have adaptable stomachs and we have fed them corn and wheat for a long time but diabetes rates have increased. The legumes used to replace those grains are relatively new as a food source and according to the FDA my be causing heart disease in some breeds. 

My dog has digestive issues, I have to wonder if the food I fed her helped to cause it even though she does have a genetic predisposition to have issues like that. According to the heart disease study not all breeds are effected by the food. Rice seems to be the best alternative for digestion.

I cant seem to get behind the raw diets either and if I was to feed my dog what she would "naturally eat" I would have to start breeding ship rats. yuck.  >:D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 03:19:52 PM by Captain Video »
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2019, 04:27:49 PM »
I have read about increased diabetes rates in dogs, Its hard to sort out the woo when researching dog health.

I'm just layman speculating here,

It seems to me its the same thing as feeding a human nothing but breakfast cereal soaked in chicken stock and a little bacon grease. You could live off of it but "the term healthy is not a particularly accurate"

Grains mite be ok to feed dogs because they have adaptable stomachs and we have fed them corn and wheat for a long time but diabetes rates have increased. The legumes used to replace those grains are relatively new as a food source and according to the FDA my be causing heart disease in some breeds. 

My dog has digestive issues, I have to wonder if the food I fed her helped to cause it even though she does have a genetic predisposition to have issues like that. According to the heart disease study not all breeds are effected by the food. Rice seems to be the best alternative for digestion.

I cant seem to get behind the raw diets either and if I was to feed my dog what she would "naturally eat" I would have to start breeding ship rats. yuck.  >:D

Domestic dogs evolved for as long as they've been associated with humans (12k years at a minimum) to eat the same foods that human eat in roughly the proportions.

Humans evolved eating mostly meat and animal products and only added a significant amount of grains to their diets starting 12k years ago, and the proportion of grains gradually increased. (at the same time there was a significant decrease in general health, but humans were much better protected from famine and able to survive longer winters).

Within the last 500 years highly refined flours from grains and significant amounts of sugar were introduced.

Within the last 100 years the amount of both increased significantly and within the last 50 years the amount of both increased dramatically in the West (other parts of the world are quickly catching up).

The dietary changes in humans and dogs (and cats) are outpacing evolution.

Heart disease and cancer rates in dogs and cats seem significantly higher than previously.



Is cancer increasing in cats and dogs? - Veterinary Practice News

 
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2019, 04:31:09 AM »
I have read about increased diabetes rates in dogs, Its hard to sort out the woo when researching dog health.

I'm just layman speculating here,

It seems to me its the same thing as feeding a human nothing but breakfast cereal soaked in chicken stock and a little bacon grease. You could live off of it but "the term healthy is not a particularly accurate"

Grains mite be ok to feed dogs because they have adaptable stomachs and we have fed them corn and wheat for a long time but diabetes rates have increased. The legumes used to replace those grains are relatively new as a food source and according to the FDA my be causing heart disease in some breeds. 

My dog has digestive issues, I have to wonder if the food I fed her helped to cause it even though she does have a genetic predisposition to have issues like that. According to the heart disease study not all breeds are effected by the food. Rice seems to be the best alternative for digestion.

I cant seem to get behind the raw diets either and if I was to feed my dog what she would "naturally eat" I would have to start breeding ship rats. yuck.  >:D

Domestic dogs evolved for as long as they've been associated with humans (12k years at a minimum) to eat the same foods that human eat in roughly the proportions.

Humans evolved eating mostly meat and animal products and only added a significant amount of grains to their diets starting 12k years ago, and the proportion of grains gradually increased. (at the same time there was a significant decrease in general health, but humans were much better protected from famine and able to survive longer winters).

Within the last 500 years highly refined flours from grains and significant amounts of sugar were introduced.

Within the last 100 years the amount of both increased significantly and within the last 50 years the amount of both increased dramatically in the West (other parts of the world are quickly catching up).

The dietary changes in humans and dogs (and cats) are outpacing evolution.

Heart disease and cancer rates in dogs and cats seem significantly higher than previously.



Is cancer increasing in cats and dogs? - Veterinary Practice News

 

Evidence that humans evolved to consume mainly an animal-based diet?  Besides the fact that it is consistent with your ideological bias towards low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diets?

Humans evolved to eat whatever food is readily available, regardless of whether animal-based or plant-based.  Plant-based foods were actually more reliable and more readily obtained.  Animal-based foods through hunting was actually unreliable.  Hunters were often unsuccessful returning empty handed.

Evidence that dietary changes in humans are outpacing evolution?  A major dietary change in humans is consuming milk products after infancy.  Evolution allowed humans to digest the excess lactose quite nicely.  If anything, evolution hasn’t allowed humans to cope with a sedentary lifestyle, which is a major risk factor for early morbidity and mortality, related to diabetes, chronic heart disease, dementia and various forms of cancer, along with obesity, which is also a risk factor too.

Agreed.  The introduction of agriculture resulted in a decline in the average human health.  But there were also more humans, because the food supply was more plentiful.  But agriculture also became vulnerable to famines.  Hunter-gatherers could move to other areas if the food supply in one area decreased too much, something the larger and more settled agricultural communities couldn’t do.  And the early crops were restricted and not selectively bred to be optimum.  And the larger agricultural communities were more susceptible to epidemics and other infectious diseases than hunter-gatherer bands.

By the way.  Your linked article on cancer in pets doesn’t say what you claim it says.  Is cancer increasing in dogs and cats?  We don’t know.  As it result, it’s premature to claim that diet is causing an increase.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2019, 08:19:01 AM »
Loren Cordain (who also is a proponent of the ‘Paleolithic Diet,’ and has written books promoting it) has written a paper giving the range of plant-based foods/animal-based foods in hunter-gatherer societies.  The range is wide:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/71/3/682/4729121

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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Dog food and heart disease
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2019, 01:46:34 PM »
Loren Cordain (who also is a proponent of the ‘Paleolithic Diet,’ and has written books promoting it) has written a paper giving the range of plant-based foods/animal-based foods in hunter-gatherer societies.  The range is wide:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/71/3/682/4729121

Loren Cordain is the founder of the Paleo movement. The Paleo Diet is his trademarked diet plan.

https://thepaleodiet.com/dr-loren-cordain/

Quote
Most (73%) of the worldwide hunter-gatherer societies derived >50% (≥56–65% of energy) of their subsistence from animal foods, whereas only 14% of these societies derived >50% (≥56–65% of energy) of their subsistence from gathered plant foods.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.