Author Topic: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views  (Read 950 times)

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Offline John Albert

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2019, 10:03:30 AM »
... people that want to reproduce are basically, by definition, the kind of people that shouldn't.

^ This!!!

Now that's a hot take.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2019, 12:25:21 PM »
Now that's a hot take.

In fact, it's cold as Hell.

Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2019, 04:51:46 PM »
... people that want to reproduce are basically, by definition, the kind of people that shouldn't.

^ This!!!

My anecdotal observations are just the opposite. Almost all the parents I know are awesome at raising kids, and are exactly the type of people I want influencing the next generation.  :)

Offline 2397

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2019, 04:57:18 PM »
I definitely wouldn't replace the people who want kids with the people who don't want kids (who aren't already parents), as parents. But there are a lot of people who have kids regardless of what they plan to, or who haven't planned it at all.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 04:59:45 PM by 2397 »

Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2019, 04:58:24 PM »
... people that want to reproduce are basically, by definition, the kind of people that shouldn't.

^ This!!!

My anecdotal observations are just the opposite. Almost all the parents I know are awesome at raising kids, and are exactly the type of people I want influencing the next generation.  :)

My observations are equivocal.  Plenty of folks whose influence I'd like to see continue in the world either do or don't have children, and plenty of folks who could just give it a rest any time now either do or don't have kids.
Big Mike
Grande Prairie AB Canada

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2019, 11:22:27 PM »
Yeah, I edited a couple sentences out. But, at some point we are going to have to address the abyss.

What is the best compromise of individual parent vs societal rights to regulate the affairs of minors? I mean, if you can audit taxes...

Offline SnarlPatrick

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2019, 10:38:33 AM »
Elevator pitch to use when talking to people who don't deny climate change, but are complacent about it?

It would have to include a pragmatic part where you demonstrated that something CAN be done at a reasonable cost (economic and otherwise) to prevent undesirable consequences. Proving the extent of the damage doesn't help unless you can demonstrate that we have the time, technology, finance, and global political will to prevent sea level rise. If the rise is inevitable, the conversation should be about damage mitigation, rebuilding, insurance, economic reliance resiliance... redundancy in shipping, and similar considerations.

It would also help to be logically consistent and supportive of nuclear power. I don't take climate change lectures from people who oppose nuclear power.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 11:32:31 AM by SnarlPatrick »
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SnarlPatrick, you are a nazi apologist piece of shit. You're a coward who hides behind the internet   ....   and I can only imagine it's a good thing your Jewish ancestors are dead so they don't have to watch you grow into the bigoted nazi creep you've become.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2019, 11:28:17 AM »
... I don't take climate change lectures from people who oppose nuclear power.

Chernobyl and Fukushima are going to make nuclear power a very hard sell for the scientifically-illiterate public. If we could elect legislators and school board members who would get good, solid science education into our schools, then in 20 years we would have scientifically literate young adults just starting to enter to voting pool. In another 20 years after that there could be enough of them to start getting scientifically literate people into public office, and in another 20 years after that those people would have moved up into actual positions of influence. But without scientifically literate people in high office we're not going to get science into our schools. So it never happens. Maybe after people have forgotten Chernobyl and Fukushima the public will be able to accept nuclear power.

I don't see any hope.
Daniel
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2019, 11:49:27 AM »
Every time I see this topic come up I'm afraid to open it.  I pretty much fear any topic with "Elevator" in the heading.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2019, 01:41:05 PM »
It would have to include a pragmatic part where you demonstrated that something CAN be done at a reasonable cost (economic and otherwise) to prevent undesirable consequences. Proving the extent of the damage doesn't help unless you can demonstrate that we have the time, technology, finance, and global political will to prevent sea level rise. If the rise is inevitable, the conversation should be about damage mitigation, rebuilding, insurance, economic reliance resiliance... redundancy in shipping, and similar considerations.

This throws me a bit.  It seems to have scalability constraints.

If you're pitching a new sea wall or irrigation system, sure, but at the policy level?  I see getting jammed up two ways:
  • Our science and technology is too limited to do anything about the big stuff -- shrinking farming regions, ocean acidification, etc. -- so tight 'problem → solution' framing is out
  • We need to dump money into adaptation/mitigation just to create it in the first place.  And many measures will be the sum of a large number of smaller measures, also breaking tight 'problem → solution' framing
When I pitch this stuff, the underlying concept tends to be something like: We have it one way. Now it will be the other way. The transition will be hell.

It usually works alright.  If not to the target then the audience.

Last I checked:
  • Current Warming: +1C
  • Current Lock-In: +1.5C
  • Current Trajectory: ~+5C
Everyone everywhere will be adversely affected. 

We're only at +1C and major geographic changes have already started.

People commonly worry about migrants.  Well:

Article: How climate change is pushing Central American migrants to the US
From: The Guardian
Date: 2019 APR 06

Quote
The average temperature in Central America has increased by 0.5C since 1950; it is projected to rise another 1-2 degrees before 2050. This has a dramatic impact on weather patterns, on rainfall, on soil quality, on crops’ susceptibility to disease, and thus on farmers and local economies. Meanwhile, incidences of storms, floods and droughts on are the rise in the region. In coming years, according to the US Agency for International Development, countries in the northern triangle will see decreased rainfall and prolonged drought, writ large. In Honduras, rainfall will be sparse in areas where it is needed, yet in other areas, floods will increase by 60%. In Guatemala, the arid regions will creep further and further into current agricultural areas, leaving farmers out to dry. And El Salvador is projected to lose 10-28% of its coastline before the end of the century. How will all those people survive, and where will they go?



Article: Guatemalan Climate Change Refugees Pouring Over U.S. Border – And Into South Florida
From: WLRN
Date: 2019 APR 8

Quote
Last week President Trump threatened to close the U.S. southern border because record numbers of Central American migrants are arriving there – including 100,000 apprehended in March. “I’m not playing games,” Trump warned. “We can’t hold people anymore.”

But what’s lost in Trump’s border-security bluster is that there’s something unusual about this wave of Central American migrants. Most are not from Honduras or El Salvador. Most are instead from Guatemala. And immigrant advocates say the main force driving them to flee here is climate change.

...

"Corn, beans – when I was younger we often had full harvests,” says Abraham. “Now, nothing.”

...

At least his corner of Guatemala, which is part of El Corredor Seco, The Dry Corridor. Scientists say climate change has been hostile to agriculture in that region – so much so that last year farmers there say they lost 90 percent of their crops. At the same time, severely depressed prices for Guatemalan coffee have left those campesinos with little or alternative cash source to buy food.

“The number of Guatemalan families, new arrivals, is increasing a lot,” says Amanda Escalante, a family aid coordinator at the nonprofit Guatemalan Maya Center in Lake Worth. “I see the unusual level of desperation, extreme poverty.”

Escalante believes the Guatemalans she’s helping now are part of the world’s new and growing cohort of displaced people: climate change refugees.

“This is a reality,” she insists. “If there is no agriculture in Guatemala how can they survive?”

But how has climate change made Guatemala’s Corredor Seco so unsurvivable? What distinguishes this prolonged, dust bowl-style crisis from, say, routine cycles of drought?

“It’s the unusual climate volatility,” says Dan McQuillan, agricultural programs manager for the nonprofit Catholic Relief Services and an expert on farming in Guatemala.

“Volatility is really what affects farming systems.”

McQuillan, who spoke with WLRN from his base in Calgary, Canada, says climate change volatility is so damaging because it brings not just temperature rise and drought, but things like erratic bursts of hard rain – even during drought. And that can kill crops not for just a harvest cycle but for years to come.

“The soil is baked hard as concrete and the rain comes pouring down, battering the crop, then just runs off,” says McQuillan. “We’re seeing a tremendous amount of erosion and loss of the productive top soil.”

...

Stuff like that.
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2019, 02:24:58 PM »
Universal Healthcare in the US:
We already pay for it but don't get it. 

Nuclear power
Even with Fukishima and Chernobyl it kills and sickens fewer people per kilowatt/hour than any other form of power production.  Coal even releases more radioactive waste but in coal plants is just released into the air instead of contained. 

Of course the not elevator pitch really depends on the details which is the problem of all these elevator pitches.

Immigration reform, everyone in the US agrees we need reform and has for decades.  The details of our desired reform vary considerably. 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2019, 04:01:13 PM »
Nuclear power
Even with Fukishima and Chernobyl it kills and sickens fewer people per kilowatt/hour than any other form of power production.  Coal even releases more radioactive waste but in coal plants is just released into the air instead of contained.

I think the problem is that sickness and death from coal, for example, is perceived as "background" consequences. The fear of nuclear is fear of a great explosion with total destruction over a large area. It's that fear that must be overcome, and statistics and evidence will not do that. The argument would be "Well, maybe not so many people have died yet, but what if X?"

It's going to be a very hard sell.
Daniel
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Offline 2397

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2019, 05:49:56 PM »
A hundred deaths from a nuclear accident is a tragedy, a million deaths from routine coal use is a statistic.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2019, 06:07:16 PM »
It's going to be a very hard sell.

https://www.ft.com/content/a38cdbcc-e0ed-11e8-8e70-5e22a430c1ad

Uranium cost $60/kg. A kilogram produces 46 Terawatt-hours of energy.

Online arthwollipot

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Re: Elevator pitch answers for contentious views
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2019, 08:42:56 PM »
Every time I see this topic come up I'm afraid to open it.  I pretty much fear any topic with "Elevator" in the heading.

"Prominent skeptical woman asked men not to hit on her in elevators, and a bunch of entitled manbabies lost their shit."

Was that a good elevator pitch for Elevatorgate?
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