Author Topic: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.  (Read 3651 times)

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Online lonely moa

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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2019, 03:49:07 PM »
I would argue that food is not a bind spot but information is confusing.

High LDL cholesterol?

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401

Quote
High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis.

Lower your salt intake and live longer?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1105553

Quote
However, findings from prospective cohort studies, evaluating the association between sodium intake and CV events, have been conflicting.1 For example, although some have reported a positive association between sodium intake and CV mortality,4-7 others have not,8-11 and some have reported an inverse association./quote]



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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2019, 05:12:48 PM »
I would argue that food is not a bind spot but information is confusing.

High LDL cholesterol?

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401

Quote
High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis.



I knew who the first author of this study would be before I clicked the link.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2019, 05:18:47 PM »
I would argue that food is not a bind spot but information is confusing.

High LDL cholesterol?

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401

Quote
High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis.

Lower your salt intake and live longer?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1105553

Quote
However, findings from prospective cohort studies, evaluating the association between sodium intake and CV events, have been conflicting.1 For example, although some have reported a positive association between sodium intake and CV mortality,4-7 others have not,8-11 and some have reported an inverse association./quote]

Well, the sodium intake study was done in a population with hypertension on treatment.  It demonstrated a U-shaped curve of morbidity with both high and low sodium intake being associated with increased risk of cardiovascular events.  It says nothing about your risk if you don’t have hypertension and deliberately increase your sodium intake by increasing your sodium intake by choosing salty food, adding salt cooking, and adding extra salt to your cooked food.  Extrapolating from the study, it should increase your risk, since you’d be at the right end of the U-curve.

The cholesterol review was interesting.  I’ve never been convinced about the relationship of a particular blood lipid profile and morbidity and mortality.  CarbShark loves to cite short term studies of LCHF diets showing an ‘improvement’ in the blood lipid profile.  I’ve always argued that the blood lipid profile is a proxy of risk, not risk itself.  To know whether LCHF diets have an effect on morbidity and mortality (whether increased or decreased) you need large long term observational studies, which don’t exist.

I suspect it wouldn’t show much difference.  And that LCHF diets are acceptable, but not ‘best.’  There’s no one single ‘best’ diet.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2019, 08:40:31 PM »
The cover article on this week's New Scientist magazine is all about how we actually have very little solid scientific data to support various dietary theories. Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.

The article itself is still paywalled on the website (I think they unlock it after a week), but pick up a copy of the paper magazine from your nearest newsagency.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2019, 08:52:08 PM »
The cover article on this week's New Scientist magazine is all about how we actually have very little solid scientific data to support various dietary theories. Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.
 

Gee, where have I heard that before?
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2019, 08:55:34 PM »
The cover article on this week's New Scientist magazine is all about how we actually have very little solid scientific data to support various dietary theories. Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.
 

Gee, where have I heard that before?

I don't know - where have you heard that before?
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2019, 09:33:43 PM »
The cover article on this week's New Scientist magazine is all about how we actually have very little solid scientific data to support various dietary theories. Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.
 

Gee, where have I heard that before?

I don't know - where have you heard that before?

Wherever the work of Gary Taubes, Zoe Hardcomb, Eric Westman, Stephen Phinney, Jeff Volek and Ricard Feinman are discussed. (Including right here in this very forum)
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2019, 09:47:48 PM »
Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.


Do you think controlled clinical trials are the only source of evidence?
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2019, 10:00:44 PM »
Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.


Do you think controlled clinical trials are the only source of evidence?

Exactly.  Controlled clinical trials provide only limited information.  They’re almost always studying small restricted populations for relatively short periods.  The better method of assessing diets are large population long term observational studies, which aren’t perfect either.

The best diet is the one you can keep to for years and decades in reasonable heath.  And that you enjoy.  I enjoy eating fruit and vegetables regardless of whether it provides a health benefit or not.  Regardless of what I do, I know I’m going to die someday.  Someone like CarbShark eschews most fruit and vegetables (such as carrots) because he thinks they’re unhealthy not because he doesn’t enjoy them.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2019, 12:34:59 AM »
Even the idea that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables has not actually been the subject of very many controlled trials - if any - so there is no specific evidence that doing so achieves any health outcome at all.


Do you think controlled clinical trials are the only source of evidence?

No, obviously not. But the article goes into a lot more detail about it than I did here. Even the observational studies are lacking.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #115 on: July 17, 2019, 04:09:44 AM »
An inverse relationship of LDL C and LDL with the ultimate endpoint (death from any cause) is all I need to know not to be worried about blood lipid markers (actually the GPs at my local surgery think the same).  Makes me sceptical of standard logic.  Doesn't take too much thought to realise that arteries are not clogged with fat like household plumbing... Even Mercola has come to that conclusion; changed his mind when the facts came to light.

One major insight means there are likely others.

This is a good podcast regarding the variation in humans and food metabolism (a study by Dr Tim Spector); all about the gut. No paywall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006sgv
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2019, 04:52:41 AM »
An inverse relationship of LDL C and LDL with the ultimate endpoint (death from any cause) is all I need to know not to be worried about blood lipid markers (actually the GPs at my local surgery think the same).

But there are many more studies that show a direct relation than an inverse relation.

As I have have said before, your capacity for confirmation bias seems limitless.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #117 on: July 17, 2019, 07:34:20 PM »
An inverse relationship of LDL C and LDL with the ultimate endpoint (death from any cause) is all I need to know not to be worried about blood lipid markers (actually the GPs at my local surgery think the same).  Makes me sceptical of standard logic.  Doesn't take too much thought to realise that arteries are not clogged with fat like household plumbing... Even Mercola has come to that conclusion; changed his mind when the facts came to light.

One major insight means there are likely others.

This is a good podcast regarding the variation in humans and food metabolism (a study by Dr Tim Spector); all about the gut. No paywall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006sgv

Tim Spector has written a book.  Actually, several books including ‘Identically Different.  Why You Can Change Your Genes,’ which makes me suspicious regarding his science. 

It’s magical thinking supposing that there’s a single ‘best’ diet.  The best diet for a person is the one the person can keep to for years and decades, providing adequate (but not excessive calories), adequate essential amino acids and fatty acids, and adequate minerals and vitamins, while attaining and maintaining a healthy body weight and body fat percentage.  A person shouldn’t ‘diet’ short term to lose weight, because short term diets never work.  Nor do short term exercise programs.

If a diet fulfills the necessities I’ve listed above, then it’s a good diet for that particular person.  But it’s not the best diet for everyone.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2019, 09:14:49 PM »
It’s magical thinking supposing that there’s a single ‘best’ diet.  The best diet for a person is the one the person can keep to for years and decades, providing adequate (but not excessive calories), adequate essential amino acids and fatty acids, and adequate minerals and vitamins, while attaining and maintaining a healthy body weight and body fat percentage.  A person shouldn’t ‘diet’ short term to lose weight, because short term diets never work.  Nor do short term exercise programs.

If a diet fulfills the necessities I’ve listed above, then it’s a good diet for that particular person.  But it’s not the best diet for everyone.

Which is also the conclusion of the New Scientist article I referred to.
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Re: Why is food such a damn blind spot for so many.
« Reply #119 on: July 17, 2019, 10:05:56 PM »
It’s magical thinking supposing that there’s a single ‘best’ diet.  The best diet for a person is the one the person can keep to for years and decades, providing adequate (but not excessive calories), adequate essential amino acids and fatty acids, and adequate minerals and vitamins, while attaining and maintaining a healthy body weight and body fat percentage.  A person shouldn’t ‘diet’ short term to lose weight, because short term diets never work.  Nor do short term exercise programs.

If a diet fulfills the necessities I’ve listed above, then it’s a good diet for that particular person.  But it’s not the best diet for everyone.

Which is also the conclusion of the New Scientist article I referred to.

So occasionally ‘New Scientist’ gets it right?  I stopped subscribing to ‘New Scientist’ after they published their notorious ‘What Darwin Got Wrong’ issue, and the Young Creationists in my pathology department celebrated (admittedly, they weren’t the sharpest knives in the cutlery drawer, and weren’t particularly good lab assistants, let alone science literate).
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