Author Topic: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?  (Read 2654 times)

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Online bachfiend

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #240 on: January 24, 2020, 05:15:49 PM »
Apparently the fad is still trending:

The Dr. Oz Show How to avoid cooking-spray explosions; Carson Daly (“Today”) tries intermittent fasting. (N) 1 p.m. Fox (Check local listings)

Intermittent fasting isn’t a fad, because it’s not popular enough to be a fad.  And it will never be popular enough to be a fad because it has too much advertising and marketing acting against it making eating anywhere and at any time socially acceptable and considered ‘normal.’ 

Using Google trends as a very bad proxy of popularity:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,%2Fm%2F03cg86

Compared to ketogenic diet (topic) (which does appear to have reached its peak in ‘popularity’), intermittent fasting (topic) is just bumping along near zero.  At least in America, which because with its epidemic of obesity, is just looking for easy ways of losing weight.

Well you're comparing it to the most popular diet plan in the world. Of course it's going to fare poorly. Try this:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,Low%20fat%20diet

I’m comparing intermittent fasting (topic) to the most ‘popular’ diet fad in America, not the world (America isn’t the world).  And I’m comparing similar metrics - intermittent fasting (topic) versus ketogenic diet (topic). 

How do you know it's not the most popular diet in the world? Everything I've seen seems to indicate it is.
Quote

I’ve asked you before, and I’ll ask you again.  How many people are using ketogenic diets?

Same answer as before. I don't know.

Until there is some clear objective data that answer won't change.

If you asked me to guess I'd say 10s of millions in the US and 10s of millions more outside the US.

What's your guess?

So you’re basing your claim that ketogenic diets are the most popular diet in the world on the basis of a guess?

I don’t know how many people are using ketogenic diets.  Nor do I know how many people are using intermittent fasting as a strategy.  I don’t guess.  I prefer to use real data.  And I try to ensure that the data I have is actually applicable to the question I’m attempting to answer.

But I do know that there are a lot of very loud and persistent people proselytising for diets making health claims for which there is no evidence one way way or the other (such as you, in particular you).
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #241 on: January 24, 2020, 05:54:28 PM »
Apparently the fad is still trending:

The Dr. Oz Show How to avoid cooking-spray explosions; Carson Daly (“Today”) tries intermittent fasting. (N) 1 p.m. Fox (Check local listings)

Intermittent fasting isn’t a fad, because it’s not popular enough to be a fad.  And it will never be popular enough to be a fad because it has too much advertising and marketing acting against it making eating anywhere and at any time socially acceptable and considered ‘normal.’ 

Using Google trends as a very bad proxy of popularity:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,%2Fm%2F03cg86

Compared to ketogenic diet (topic) (which does appear to have reached its peak in ‘popularity’), intermittent fasting (topic) is just bumping along near zero.  At least in America, which because with its epidemic of obesity, is just looking for easy ways of losing weight.

Well you're comparing it to the most popular diet plan in the world. Of course it's going to fare poorly. Try this:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,Low%20fat%20diet

I’m comparing intermittent fasting (topic) to the most ‘popular’ diet fad in America, not the world (America isn’t the world).  And I’m comparing similar metrics - intermittent fasting (topic) versus ketogenic diet (topic). 

How do you know it's not the most popular diet in the world? Everything I've seen seems to indicate it is.
Quote

I’ve asked you before, and I’ll ask you again.  How many people are using ketogenic diets?

Same answer as before. I don't know.

Until there is some clear objective data that answer won't change.

If you asked me to guess I'd say 10s of millions in the US and 10s of millions more outside the US.

What's your guess?

Quote
So you’re basing your claim that ketogenic diets are the most popular diet in the world on the basis of a guess?

No, Dr. reading comprehension, the guess was the range I'd give if you asked me for a number.

I didn't say the basis of my belief that they are the most popular in the world. 

Quote
I don’t know how many people are using ketogenic diets.  Nor do I know how many people are using intermittent fasting as a strategy.  I don’t guess.  I prefer to use real data.  And I try to ensure that the data I have is actually applicable to the question I’m attempting to answer.

But I do know that there are a lot of very loud and persistent people proselytising for diets making health claims for which there is no evidence one way way or the other (such as you, in particular you).

I do not make health claims for LCHF diets for which there is no evidence, so you're wrong again.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #242 on: January 24, 2020, 06:07:42 PM »
Apparently the fad is still trending:

The Dr. Oz Show How to avoid cooking-spray explosions; Carson Daly (“Today”) tries intermittent fasting. (N) 1 p.m. Fox (Check local listings)

Intermittent fasting isn’t a fad, because it’s not popular enough to be a fad.  And it will never be popular enough to be a fad because it has too much advertising and marketing acting against it making eating anywhere and at any time socially acceptable and considered ‘normal.’ 

Using Google trends as a very bad proxy of popularity:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,%2Fm%2F03cg86

Compared to ketogenic diet (topic) (which does appear to have reached its peak in ‘popularity’), intermittent fasting (topic) is just bumping along near zero.  At least in America, which because with its epidemic of obesity, is just looking for easy ways of losing weight.

Well you're comparing it to the most popular diet plan in the world. Of course it's going to fare poorly. Try this:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F04ycpbq,Low%20fat%20diet

I’m comparing intermittent fasting (topic) to the most ‘popular’ diet fad in America, not the world (America isn’t the world).  And I’m comparing similar metrics - intermittent fasting (topic) versus ketogenic diet (topic). 

How do you know it's not the most popular diet in the world? Everything I've seen seems to indicate it is.
Quote

I’ve asked you before, and I’ll ask you again.  How many people are using ketogenic diets?

Same answer as before. I don't know.

Until there is some clear objective data that answer won't change.

If you asked me to guess I'd say 10s of millions in the US and 10s of millions more outside the US.

What's your guess?

Quote
So you’re basing your claim that ketogenic diets are the most popular diet in the world on the basis of a guess?

No, Dr. reading comprehension, the guess was the range I'd give if you asked me for a number.

I didn't say the basis of my belief that they are the most popular in the world. 

Quote
I don’t know how many people are using ketogenic diets.  Nor do I know how many people are using intermittent fasting as a strategy.  I don’t guess.  I prefer to use real data.  And I try to ensure that the data I have is actually applicable to the question I’m attempting to answer.

But I do know that there are a lot of very loud and persistent people proselytising for diets making health claims for which there is no evidence one way way or the other (such as you, in particular you).

I do not make health claims for LCHF diets for which there is no evidence, so you're wrong again.

Yes, you do, when you proselytise for your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet as a healthy long term diet.  You have evidence that it’s an effective short term weight loss strategy, and based on the proxies of risk factors (such as blood lipid profiles) doesn’t appear to be worsening the risk of chronic disease in the overweight and obese while they’re losing weight.

But you don’t have any evidence about the long term health effects of your diet in people of all sizes and shapes, including the lean.  There’s just not the data.

If you’d restricted your proselytising to just short term weight loss, I’d have no objection.  But you persistently proselytise for it as a weight maintenance strategy, which I find objectionable.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #243 on: January 24, 2020, 06:38:26 PM »
Quote
If you’d restricted your proselytising to just short term weight loss, I’d have no objection.  But you persistently proselytise for it as a weight maintenance strategy, which I find objectionable.

So you're saying that a LCHF diet is fine for two-years (which is the longest period for RCT showing with keto, and it showed no ill effect.)

So what should one switch to for maintenance. What diet or eating pattern has been studied for the long term and proven to be healthy?

If you're saying you shouldn't follow keto long term because it hasn't been studied rigorously, that suggests there is some other diet or eating pattern or diet strategy that has been studied for the long term.

Hint: There isn't.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 10:14:30 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #244 on: January 24, 2020, 08:34:02 PM »
CarbShark,

You don’t have any evidence that your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet is safe or healthy long term.  If you’d just proselytised for it being an effective short term weight loss strategy for weight loss in the overweight and obese, I’d have no objections.  But you continually and persistently make health claims for the long term.  I have never denied that your diet isn’t effective in losing weight (sometimes I have questioned whether some of the weight loss is just water, not fat).

There is evidence about the long term health effects of diet and nutrition.  Plenty of evidence.  There’s just no evidence about your diet.

And no, I don’t proselytise for intermittent fasting.  I just note that it’s a good strategy.  I don’t tell people that it’s a strategy that’s appropriate for everyone.

People put on weight and become overweight and obese not because of a particular diet, but because they’ve adopted bad habits which they’ve followed for years and decades and which encourage them to consume more calories than they expend.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy body weight and body fat percentage depends on losing the bad habits and replacing them with good habits.

Most diets fail because the person, having lost weight, goes back on the bad habits again.

Intermittent fasting works for me because it makes me immune to the blandishments of the fast food outlets and food manufacturers.  There are other strategies that work too.

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Offline jt512

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Re: Intermittent fasting. Health benefits?
« Reply #245 on: January 24, 2020, 09:50:05 PM »
Quote
If you’d restricted your proselytising to just short term weight loss, I’d have no objection.  But you persistently proselytise for it as a weight maintenance strategy, which I find objectionable.

So you're saying that a LCHF diet is fine for two-years (which is the longest period for RCT showing with keto, and it showed no ill effect.)

So what should one switch to for maintenance. What diet or eating pattern has been studied for the long term and proven to be healthy?

If you're saying you shouldn't follow keto long term because it hasn't been studied rigorously, that suggests there is some other diet or eating pattern or diet strategy that has been studied for the long term.

Hint: There isn't.

I know you're in denial, but the evidence from long-term observational studies is clear and convincing: the less meat-based and more plant-based your diet is, the longer you live.  Stay on your low-carb diet if it helps you maintain a healthy weight (and take your chances on the health effects of a lifetime of ketosis), but there is no question that the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that the more you reduce your meat consumption and replace the calories with plant-based alternatives, the better off you'll be. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 01:11:36 AM by jt512 »
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