Author Topic: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece  (Read 274 times)

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Online gmalivuk

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210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« on: July 12, 2019, 07:11:24 PM »
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Two fossilised but badly damaged skulls unearthed in a Greek cave in the 1970s were identified as Neanderthal at the time.

In findings presented in the journal Nature, an international team of researchers used state-of-the art computer modelling and uranium dating to re-examine the two skulls.

One of them, named Apidima 2 after the cave in which the pair were found, proved to be 170,000 years old and did indeed belong to a Neanderthal.

But, to the shock of scientists, the skull named Apidima 1 pre-dated Apidima 2 by as much as 40,000 years, and was determined to be that of a Homo sapiens.

That makes the skull by far the oldest modern human remains ever discovered on the continent, and older than any known Homo sapiens specimen outside of Africa.

"It shows that the early dispersal of Homo sapiens out of Africa not only occurred earlier, before 200,000 years ago, but also reached further geographically, all the way to Europe," Katerina Harvati, a palaeoanthropologist at the Eberhard Karls University of Tuebingen, Germany, told AFP.

It reminded me of this old thread wherein CarbShark insists that early Homo sapiens couldn't have walked 1000 miles across part of Africa.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 08:11:23 AM »
"How did you walk so far?"

"I put one foot in front of the other until I arrived."
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 10:10:57 AM »
Ugh.  Rereading that thread made my blood boil.
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 09:01:33 AM »
Regarding homo sapiens, how much does this change what we think about human evolution and expansion out of Africa.  Seems like it was a small group that probably died out without leaving much impact outside of Africa. 

Online gmalivuk

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 09:45:53 AM »
Yeah I don't think it changes the overall story much, it's just a far earlier find than anyone would have expected.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 12:24:54 PM »
Homo naledi was around at about that time, so we have four(?) species of Homo existing at one time. Sounds like a Quatermass plot.  :D
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline John Albert

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 01:25:13 PM »
Regarding homo sapiens, how much does this change what we think about human evolution and expansion out of Africa.  Seems like it was a small group that probably died out without leaving much impact outside of Africa.

I seem to recall reading that the latest evidence suggests at least two separate migrations out of Africa at different times.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2019, 02:05:50 PM »
Regarding homo sapiens, how much does this change what we think about human evolution and expansion out of Africa.  Seems like it was a small group that probably died out without leaving much impact outside of Africa.

Last time I read about this, this seemed to be the case. From what I know, all current humans are descended from a group of about 2000 to 6000 individuals that lived in east Africa about 70 000 years ago. There are remains of Homo sapiens found in modern-day Israel that are about 110 000 years old, these did not leave any descendents that survived to this day.

Though this is from my memory, it was quite some time since I read about it, and new data may have altered the picture.
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2019, 02:40:21 PM »
Regarding homo sapiens, how much does this change what we think about human evolution and expansion out of Africa.  Seems like it was a small group that probably died out without leaving much impact outside of Africa.

I seem to recall reading that the latest evidence suggests at least two separate migrations out of Africa at different times.
My understanding is that modern humans with distant ancestors outside of Africa do seem to descend from two groups.  The first that went south along the coast of West Asia and into Australia and the second group that went more north at a later date and interbred with Neandertal and Densovans. 

It is my understanding that both groups appear to have left much later than 200k years.

Offline John Albert

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Re: 210,000 year old Homo sapiens skull found in Greece
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 02:46:32 PM »
Thanks. That sounds consistent with my recollection.