Author Topic: The "Storm Area 51" memes  (Read 3595 times)

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Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2019, 11:29:13 AM »
I find this all really funny, but I’m slightly frightened to admit that I have this strange urge To have one thing on my otherwise pristine criminal record “arrested attempting to storm area 51“.

Based on my experience of anti-nuclear protesting, sometimes they arrest you, but other times they just detain you and then let you go. You could travel all the way there and not even get a formal arrest for your record.
Great t-shirt: I stormed Area 51 and all I got was this lousy criminal record!

Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2019, 01:47:25 PM »
Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.

18 U.S.C. 1382 - Entering military, naval, or Coast Guard property

Online daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2019, 02:50:12 PM »
Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.

18 U.S.C. 1382 - Entering military, naval, or Coast Guard property

I'm not going to attempt to wade through that. I have entered U.S. Air Force property as part of a number of protests against nuclear weapons. "Anti-nuclear protesting" never went on my record. What went on my record was simply "Trespassing." On some of those occasions when I was on AF property but outside the fence they just ignored us and after we'd felt that we'd made our point we went home. On some occasions we were arrested but never charged with a crime, and released soon after. At Offutt AFB there are frequent protests where people walk onto the AF property, are arrested, put on busses (carried very gently on stretchers if the protester goes limp and refuses to walk) taken to a processing center where they're given Ban & Bar letters, usually banning them from entering the AFB for six months, and released some distance from where they were arrested. People who return in violation of the Ban & Bar letter are sometimes charged with a crime and sentenced to prison time.

On the occasion when I dug a hole in the ground next to a missile silo to symbolize my feeling that we need to dig these things out of the ground, I was charged and convicted of trespassing and damage to property (for causing $60 worth of damage to the ground.) Out of some ten or twenty acts of civil disobedience I was only actually charged with a crime on four occasions. Most of the others were arrest and release, and a few times they just ignored us. When I tried to find records of any of it when I applied for Global Entry, I could only find one of the convictions and none of the other convictions or arrests. (I was denied Global Entry but that was reversed on appeal and I was granted it. I think the interviewer just didn't like me, and whoever reviewed it agreed with my argument in my appeal letter.) And the one conviction I was able to find was not even the one where I "damaged" their dirt.

In every occasion the guards were polite and courteous, they never hurt me, and though they were armed with some very scary-looking guns, they never seemed inclined to use them. I speculate that it is U.S. military policy not to shoot peaceful protesters. All the AF guards I ever encountered were very nice people. And in fact, we had a slogan printed on a big banner that said, "US AIR FORCE: GOOD PEOPLE, BAD PRODUCT."

So while I don't know what the law says precisely, and while I know that there are signs saying that deadly force is authorized, my experience over about four years of being active in nonviolent civil disobedience is that Air Force guards are nice people who (unlike some prison guards, and even some cops) are not going to use extreme force against civilians without very strong reasons. And if anybody does show up at Area 51, the guards will know that they are mentally ill, and harmless, and will use the absolute minimum of force to keep them off the bombing range where they could get hurt.
Daniel
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2019, 12:33:47 PM »
Here's the text of 18 U.S.C. 1382:

Quote
Whoever, within the jurisdiction of the United States, goes upon any military, naval, or Coast Guard reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, for any purpose prohibited by law or lawful regulation; or

Whoever reenters or is found within any such reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, after having been removed therefrom or ordered not to reenter by any officer or person in command or charge thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Online daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2019, 06:00:32 PM »
Here's the text of 18 U.S.C. 1382:

Quote
Whoever, within the jurisdiction of the United States, goes upon any military, naval, or Coast Guard reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, for any purpose prohibited by law or lawful regulation; or

Whoever reenters or is found within any such reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, after having been removed therefrom or ordered not to reenter by any officer or person in command or charge thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass. People entering the enclosure at a Minuteman III missile silo have gotten six months, and in at least one case, a full year in prison. But not just for walking onto an air base at a regular entry point. The first time I went into a missile silo enclosure, the four of us were arrested, arraigned, and given a court date, but the day before our trial, all the charges were dropped. It wasn't until my second time (when I dug the hole) that I got prison time. The third time I just got probation, but there were complications that time and the charges were reduced.

If anybody does show up at Area 51, and if they actually get around the guards and onto the base, they'll probably be detained, given Ban & Bar letters, and released with a warning of prison time if they return within six months (the most common length of the Ban & Bar). What the law allows, and what actually happens, are seldom the same.

My best guess: Nobody shows up.

I think it would be great if half a dozen people showed up, ran around outside the entrance with their arms behind them for a while, and got videos of them doing it and of the guards by the ten large busses they're likely to have ready to haul people away.
Daniel
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2019, 12:40:21 PM »
Yeah, I don't think many people will actually show up. Even if they do, there's not much to see.

Back in the 1990s, when Art Bell was on the air and UFOs and ET conspiracy theories were popular, lots of UFO enthusiasts were going up there with telephoto cameras. So the government expanded the perimeter of Area 51 far enough beyond the hills to obscure any view of the facility. Nowadays a curious infiltrator would have to walk for miles through rough, heavily monitored and patrolled terrain, and would certainly be arrested before getting close enough to see anything.

I imagine the worst case scenario would be a tailgate party near the fence with some drunken idiots trying to climb over or cut their way inside, only to get arrested on the spot. Best case scenario, Amargosa Valley tourist traps like the Alien Travel Center, Daddy D's Rocket Diner and The Little Ale'e'Inn will have their best weekend in decades.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:09:44 PM by John Albert »

Offline Gigabyte

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2019, 05:53:12 AM »
Just fly drones in and video the place.  And find out just how good the air force drone defense system works.
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Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2019, 06:54:55 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Calinthalus

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2019, 07:57:37 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
Yeah, but those are brown children.  These will be white people trespassing.
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Online daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2019, 11:21:25 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
Yeah, but those are brown children.  These will be white people trespassing.

Exactly!
Daniel
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2019, 06:17:24 AM »
Well it appears I was wrong...

People are already showing up and getting arrested for trying to enter Area 51.

An editorial page in Air Force Times offers a somewhat snarkier report.

Quote
Two Dutch nationals in search of Area 51 sentenced to jail for trespassing

Ed Komenda, Reno Gazette Journal | Published 7:34 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2019 | Updated 7:35 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2019



LAS VEGAS – The Dutch nationals in search of Area 51 arrested for trespassing on the Nevada National Security Site have pleaded guilty and are expected this week to leave jail and return to the Netherlands.

“We did not want to cause any trouble, it has all gone a little bit out of hand,” said 20-year-old Ties Granzier – the Dutch YouTube star charged last week with his 21-year-old friend, Govert Charles Wilhelmus Jacob Sweep – in a video statement the Nye County Sheriff’s Office released Monday. “We learned from our mistakes, and it’s good to be back in a bit.”

Granzier and Sweep appeared Monday in Beatty Justice Court and pleaded guilty to trespassing and illegal parking, according to Nye County District Attorney Chris Arabia.

The men were sentenced to one year in the county jail with all but 10 days suspended.

But their plea agreement comes with conditions: Stay away from any events near or related to the Nevada National Security Site and avoid stepping within 500 yards of the site for the next year.



Authorities say a pair of Dutch men trespassed on the Nevada National Security Site, about 18 miles from Area 51.
(Photo: Nye County Sheriff's Office)

The men could be released from jail Thursday morning if their fines and fees – $2,280 each – are paid.

“It was important to us that these men serve jail time and pay a substantial financial penalty,” Arabia said. “We take this crime seriously, and people need to understand that we will not put up with this kind of nonsense.”


In search of Area 51

On Sept. 10, Nye County sheriff’s deputies responded to a report about foreign nationals trespassing on the Nevada National Security Site, a government testing range 65 miles north of Las Vegas.

The site is a 1,360-square-mile desert patch where scientists decades ago detonated more than 900 nuclear bombs. But the guarded government area is also 18 miles southwest of Area 51 – a military facility set inside a classified test and training range the size of Connecticut that for decades has fueled conspiracy theories and local lore about what exactly goes on there.

'Storm Area 51': Organizer bails on Alienstock, will throw party in Las Vegas instead

A new chapter in the Area 51 mystery opened this summer when a California college student named Matty Roberts created a joke Facebook event called “Storm Area 51 – They Can’t Stop All of Us.” The affair soon exploded into a viral space oddity that generated millions of RSVPs, spawned drama between competing music festivals and led governments to declare emergencies.

In an Instagram post published before the encounter with police, Granzier posed in photos in front of the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam. The caption, written in Dutch, foreshadowed the next stop on his journey through Nevada:

“Now on to crazy recordings of crazy adventures [at] Area 51.”

The caption has since been edited to remove reference to the mysterious government base.

The arrest

Deputies found a car parked 3 miles past the entrance gate.

Identified as the occupants of the vehicle, Sweep and Granzier told deputies they speak, read and write English. They saw the “No Trespassing” signs – but still they wanted a look.

Granzier identified himself as a “YouTuber.” He posts videos as “TIES” on a YouTube page that has more than 735,000 subscribers.

Deputies found in their possession several cameras, a phone, a laptop and a drone. The men consented to a search of the cameras. Deputies found video footage captured on the Nevada National Security Site property.

Sweep and Granzier were arrested and booked into the Nye County Detention Center.

If Granzier and Sweep comply with the conditions of their plea agreement, Arabia said, a conspiracy to trespass charge on hold against them will be dismissed.

“We’re not going to be in trouble again,” Sweep said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/17/area-51-search-dutch-youtuber-and-friend-sentenced-trespassing/2357810001/



Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2019, 06:35:01 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
Yeah, but those are brown children.  These will be white people trespassing.

Exactly!
So they slip one brown person in and paint the whole group with that brush.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2019, 08:33:11 AM »
I imagine there have got to be a few nonwhite people among the 2.1 million.

Online Harry Black

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2019, 08:39:26 AM »
So two white dudes from a foreign country got arrested and seem to be facing fuck all consequences.
Wonder what will happen to anyone from south of the border?

Online daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2019, 10:43:30 AM »
So two white dudes from a foreign country got arrested and seem to be facing fuck all consequences.
Wonder what will happen to anyone from south of the border?

The ten days in jail is actually more than usually happened in my anti-nuclear protests. But I gather that they actually got in and took some pictures while inside. Up until the time when I actually dug a hole in the ground next to a silo, we had mostly either stood outside the gate, but on property claimed by the Air Force, or, on two occasions, I walked openly up to the guard post at the main gate and refused to leave. Ten days was the most I got for those actions, and that was just time spent waiting for a trial. The sentence was "Time Served." Other times we were in for a day or two and then released without charges. At Offutt AFB protesters step over the property line at one of the gates, having informed the Air Force of their intentions beforehand, and they are detained and given "Ban & Bar" letters prohibiting them from entering any AFB for a year, and then released, usually some distance from where they were arrested. So what these two guys got was about normal.

There's a whole different standard for people of color.
Daniel
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