Author Topic: The "Storm Area 51" memes  (Read 1366 times)

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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2019, 11:29:13 AM »
I find this all really funny, but I’m slightly frightened to admit that I have this strange urge To have one thing on my otherwise pristine criminal record “arrested attempting to storm area 51“.

Based on my experience of anti-nuclear protesting, sometimes they arrest you, but other times they just detain you and then let you go. You could travel all the way there and not even get a formal arrest for your record.
Great t-shirt: I stormed Area 51 and all I got was this lousy criminal record!

Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2019, 01:47:25 PM »
Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.

18 U.S.C. 1382 - Entering military, naval, or Coast Guard property

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2019, 02:50:12 PM »
Another thing: If you did go there and get arrested, "attempting to storm area 51" would probably not go onto your record. "Trespassing" would probably be all that went on your record.

18 U.S.C. 1382 - Entering military, naval, or Coast Guard property

I'm not going to attempt to wade through that. I have entered U.S. Air Force property as part of a number of protests against nuclear weapons. "Anti-nuclear protesting" never went on my record. What went on my record was simply "Trespassing." On some of those occasions when I was on AF property but outside the fence they just ignored us and after we'd felt that we'd made our point we went home. On some occasions we were arrested but never charged with a crime, and released soon after. At Offutt AFB there are frequent protests where people walk onto the AF property, are arrested, put on busses (carried very gently on stretchers if the protester goes limp and refuses to walk) taken to a processing center where they're given Ban & Bar letters, usually banning them from entering the AFB for six months, and released some distance from where they were arrested. People who return in violation of the Ban & Bar letter are sometimes charged with a crime and sentenced to prison time.

On the occasion when I dug a hole in the ground next to a missile silo to symbolize my feeling that we need to dig these things out of the ground, I was charged and convicted of trespassing and damage to property (for causing $60 worth of damage to the ground.) Out of some ten or twenty acts of civil disobedience I was only actually charged with a crime on four occasions. Most of the others were arrest and release, and a few times they just ignored us. When I tried to find records of any of it when I applied for Global Entry, I could only find one of the convictions and none of the other convictions or arrests. (I was denied Global Entry but that was reversed on appeal and I was granted it. I think the interviewer just didn't like me, and whoever reviewed it agreed with my argument in my appeal letter.) And the one conviction I was able to find was not even the one where I "damaged" their dirt.

In every occasion the guards were polite and courteous, they never hurt me, and though they were armed with some very scary-looking guns, they never seemed inclined to use them. I speculate that it is U.S. military policy not to shoot peaceful protesters. All the AF guards I ever encountered were very nice people. And in fact, we had a slogan printed on a big banner that said, "US AIR FORCE: GOOD PEOPLE, BAD PRODUCT."

So while I don't know what the law says precisely, and while I know that there are signs saying that deadly force is authorized, my experience over about four years of being active in nonviolent civil disobedience is that Air Force guards are nice people who (unlike some prison guards, and even some cops) are not going to use extreme force against civilians without very strong reasons. And if anybody does show up at Area 51, the guards will know that they are mentally ill, and harmless, and will use the absolute minimum of force to keep them off the bombing range where they could get hurt.
Daniel
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2019, 12:33:47 PM »
Here's the text of 18 U.S.C. 1382:

Quote
Whoever, within the jurisdiction of the United States, goes upon any military, naval, or Coast Guard reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, for any purpose prohibited by law or lawful regulation; or

Whoever reenters or is found within any such reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, after having been removed therefrom or ordered not to reenter by any officer or person in command or charge thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2019, 06:00:32 PM »
Here's the text of 18 U.S.C. 1382:

Quote
Whoever, within the jurisdiction of the United States, goes upon any military, naval, or Coast Guard reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, for any purpose prohibited by law or lawful regulation; or

Whoever reenters or is found within any such reservation, post, fort, arsenal, yard, station, or installation, after having been removed therefrom or ordered not to reenter by any officer or person in command or charge thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass. People entering the enclosure at a Minuteman III missile silo have gotten six months, and in at least one case, a full year in prison. But not just for walking onto an air base at a regular entry point. The first time I went into a missile silo enclosure, the four of us were arrested, arraigned, and given a court date, but the day before our trial, all the charges were dropped. It wasn't until my second time (when I dug the hole) that I got prison time. The third time I just got probation, but there were complications that time and the charges were reduced.

If anybody does show up at Area 51, and if they actually get around the guards and onto the base, they'll probably be detained, given Ban & Bar letters, and released with a warning of prison time if they return within six months (the most common length of the Ban & Bar). What the law allows, and what actually happens, are seldom the same.

My best guess: Nobody shows up.

I think it would be great if half a dozen people showed up, ran around outside the entrance with their arms behind them for a while, and got videos of them doing it and of the guards by the ten large busses they're likely to have ready to haul people away.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline John Albert

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2019, 12:40:21 PM »
Yeah, I don't think many people will actually show up. Even if they do, there's not much to see.

Back in the 1990s, when Art Bell was on the air and UFOs and ET conspiracy theories were popular, lots of UFO enthusiasts were going up there with telephoto cameras. So the government expanded the perimeter of Area 51 far enough beyond the hills to obscure any view of the facility. Nowadays a curious infiltrator would have to walk for miles through rough, heavily monitored and patrolled terrain, and would certainly be arrested before getting close enough to see anything.

I imagine the worst case scenario would be a tailgate party near the fence with some drunken idiots trying to climb over or cut their way inside, only to get arrested on the spot. Best case scenario, Amargosa Valley tourist traps like the Alien Travel Center, Daddy D's Rocket Diner and The Little Ale'e'Inn will have their best weekend in decades.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:09:44 PM by John Albert »

Offline Gigabyte

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2019, 05:53:12 AM »
Just fly drones in and video the place.  And find out just how good the air force drone defense system works.
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2019, 06:54:55 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2019, 07:57:37 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
Yeah, but those are brown children.  These will be white people trespassing.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: The "Storm Area 51" memes
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2019, 11:21:25 AM »
So they can put you in prison on a first offense, but I've never heard of that happening for simple trespass.
This administration is putting children in substandard prisons for just being with their parents when they cross the border. We have no idea what T.rump will do, ever.
Yeah, but those are brown children.  These will be white people trespassing.

Exactly!
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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