Author Topic: Episode #732  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline Steven Novella

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Episode #732
« on: July 20, 2019, 12:01:06 PM »
Live from NECSS; News Items: Apollo Video, Moon Strategy, Artificial Gravity, High Resolution MRI of the Brain, Gorilla Society; SGU Taste Test; Science or Fiction
Steven Novella
Host, The Skeptics Guide
snovella@theness.com

Offline GodHead

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 03:57:13 PM »
The taste test was pretty bad.

Those food items aren't even comparable.

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2019, 07:46:26 AM »
They failed to highlight the most obvious reason that moon hoax conspiracies take root.  I've seen this even in people who believed the landings and watched them on TV only to buy into the hoax story years later .
The main reason is because we never went back.   If we could accomplish something in the 60s with the technology of the time, the fact we haven't been back for decades is too much for people to grasp ( they fail to take changes in mentality regarding caution, political climate etc into account)
I often hear the sgu highlighting how miraculous the landings were in the day and what a long shot they were.  This only feeds into the conspiracy.

If NASA are unwilling to risk or spend on a moon landing today how could it be done with 60s technology.

This is the basic thought process.  All the BS points people raise like the radiation and the flag waving are just post hoc rationalisations based on this starting assumption.

As skeptics we need to nip the conspiracy in the bud by explaining why NASA never went back after the Apollo missions, we need to explain the political situation and how it has changed and stop overstating how amazingly unlikely the success of Apollo 11 was because it hurts our argument.  Yes it was risky, but it was also carefully planned and very well executed.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 07:50:16 AM by God Bomb »
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Offline lucek

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2019, 08:11:35 AM »
Cara made the claim in passing that ceratopsians were obligate quadruped. But basal ceratopsians like their close relatives the pachycephalosaurs were facultative if not obligate bipeds. Animals like microcerotops look just about like a pachycephalosaur with a frill instead of a dome.
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Power is just energy over time and. . .
Energy is just the ability to do work.

Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2019, 08:49:22 AM »
The taste test was pretty bad.

Those food items aren't even comparable.

Did they even cleanse their palate between tastes?  I was reminded of the Pepsi challenge from the 80s, which Pepsi often won because of the order in which the samples were tasted, even though it's clear to any right-thinking person that Coke (prior to the disastrous "New Coke") was the superior product.

Online 2397

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2019, 09:06:42 AM »
You get used to sodas. Drink one for a while, that's the one you'll prefer, if there's otherwise a small difference.

Stop drinking sodas, and you'll stop craving them.

Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2019, 12:26:53 PM »
They failed to highlight the most obvious reason that moon hoax conspiracies take root.  I've seen this even in people who believed the landings and watched them on TV only to buy into the hoax story years later .
The main reason is because we never went back.   If we could accomplish something in the 60s with the technology of the time, the fact we haven't been back for decades is too much for people to grasp ( they fail to take changes in mentality regarding caution, political climate etc into account)

I heard moon landing hoax conspiracies almost in real time... mid-70's for sure.  The primary reason seems to me to be distrust of government and how the government spends money... and that smug pseudo-skeptic pseudo-intellectual feeling people get when they buy into conspiracies.


Auroraceritops image for reference:

Amend and resubmit.

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 02:47:13 PM »
... and that smug pseudo-skeptic pseudo-intellectual feeling people get when they buy into conspiracies.
Joe Rogan.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 03:32:30 PM »
Basically, the only contender is centripetal acceleration. It doesn't have to be that large, in order to rotate so slowly that the Coriolis effect isn't significant. It doesn't have to be a wheel either. It could be two pods tethered together. Personally, the cylindrical option sounds pretty reasonable. And of course, it would actually be two (or an even number) rotating in opposite directions, in order to not have a gyroscopic moment.



"So, we're not going to make any savings in terms of the cost of a massive rocket." Basically, they would have had to put a high-vacuum chamber (the film set), into a sub-orbital trajectory (to simulate reduced gravity), or on one of those parabolic flight planes, in order to simulate the footage of kicked up regolith smoothly following a quadratic arc in vacuum, in reduced gravity. Basically, it would have cost more to fake the footage using 60's technology than to actually do it.



(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 04:54:24 PM by stands2reason »

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2019, 05:41:08 PM »
Aurora is the (goddess of) dawn.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 06:14:11 PM »
They failed to highlight the most obvious reason that moon hoax conspiracies take root.  I've seen this even in people who believed the landings and watched them on TV only to buy into the hoax story years later .
The main reason is because we never went back.   If we could accomplish something in the 60s with the technology of the time, the fact we haven't been back for decades is too much for people to grasp ( they fail to take changes in mentality regarding caution, political climate etc into account)

I heard moon landing hoax conspiracies almost in real time... mid-70's for sure.  The primary reason seems to me to be distrust of government and how the government spends money... and that smug pseudo-skeptic pseudo-intellectual feeling people get when they buy into conspiracies.



I don't disagree those are reasons too, any major event is accompanied by conspiracy theories from the get-go.  Those are just reasons for most conspiracy theories in general.
But why is the moon landing such a special case even with otherwise reasonable people.
The reason is because the more time passes the more the hoax story is reinforced, just by doing nothing, their argument seems to gather validity. 
I think that if manned moon missions had happened in the 80s and 90s, far fewer people would believe it's a hoax today, it would have become routine.
But by now, it's been so long that even if we did go back, I don't think it would help to validate the original missions.
Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2019, 07:33:00 PM »
I wondered why we would want to have a launch platform orbiting the moon, rather than in a Earth-moon Lagrange point? Or, an Sun-Earth Lagrange point, for that matter.

The difference between the orbital platform and a space elevator is the elevator is presumably powered by the power grid on the ground, whereas with a launch platform, you still have to do the launching, with propellant. It doesn't serve any practical purpose until there is a logistical use for something (in space) outside of the Earth's gravity well. For example: a repair/scrap shop for already-launched spacecraft, that doesn't involve going down through Earth's gravity well again; or, building craft in space from space-mined material.

An Earth space elevator still isn't possible with known material, but apparently both a Moon and Mars space elevator could be with certain synthetic fibers.

While we're on the subject, the moon space elevator is now "5-10 year" technology (https://newatlas.com/lunar-elevator/23884/).

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2019, 08:14:01 PM »
Aurora is the (goddess of) dawn.

Aurora is also the name of a woman I knew in Mexico. She was a neighbor of mine and owned and operated a small greengrocer shop nearby.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2019, 08:23:55 PM »
I was struck by the fact that although some of the rogues are so completely enamored of the idea of sending people to other worlds that they wax enthusiastic in the extreme on the subject, only Cara actually knew how projects are actually considered, developed, and eventually chosen by NASA.

The taste text was one of the most boring segments I've heard on the SGU as far back as I can remember.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2019, 08:50:22 PM »
I thought the taste test was fascinating. One of my favorite segments in a long time.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell