Author Topic: Episode #732  (Read 1592 times)

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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2019, 01:49:52 AM »
Guinness is an example of a stout. And yes, there are other stouts, and they are black. And they don't taste anything like a lager, ale or pilsner. So when you said that your Guinness "tasted like beer", no it didn't.

To me, it tasted like beer.  I’m not a beer connoisseur.  I’d drink perhaps half a glass once a year to be sociable.  More than that, and I’m almost intoxicated.  And I can’t tell  the difference between white wine and red wine either.  I can’t taste any grapes in them, let alone citrus, berries, etc wine connoisseurs appear to be able to detect.

You don't need to be a connoisseur to taste the difference between a lager and a stout. They're as different as chalk and the smell of your grandmother's kitchen. It's only through a technicality of their production process that they're both referred to as "beer".

Maybe.  If I drank a lager and a stout, and was told which is which.  To me, there’s not much difference, certainly not as much as your analogy (or are you suggesting that one is as odourless as chalk?). But I don’t drink beer, any beer, frequently.  If I’m offered beer in a restaurant, and am asked which type I want, my answer is always ‘whatever,’ because they taste the same to me.  Like beer.

I really don’t like beer.  Or wine.  I only drink them to be sociable.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2019, 02:03:54 AM »
Guinness is an example of a stout. And yes, there are other stouts, and they are black. And they don't taste anything like a lager, ale or pilsner. So when you said that your Guinness "tasted like beer", no it didn't.

To me, it tasted like beer.  I’m not a beer connoisseur.  I’d drink perhaps half a glass once a year to be sociable.  More than that, and I’m almost intoxicated.  And I can’t tell  the difference between white wine and red wine either.  I can’t taste any grapes in them, let alone citrus, berries, etc wine connoisseurs appear to be able to detect.

You don't need to be a connoisseur to taste the difference between a lager and a stout. They're as different as chalk and the smell of your grandmother's kitchen. It's only through a technicality of their production process that they're both referred to as "beer".

Maybe.  If I drank a lager and a stout, and was told which is which.  To me, there’s not much difference, certainly not as much as your analogy (or are you suggesting that one is as odourless as chalk?). But I don’t drink beer, any beer, frequently.  If I’m offered beer in a restaurant, and am asked which type I want, my answer is always ‘whatever,’ because they taste the same to me.  Like beer.

I really don’t like beer.  Or wine.  I only drink them to be sociable.

I guarantee that unless you have hypogeusia, which to be fair you might, the difference between a stout and a lager is VERY strong. They look different, they smell different, they taste different, their mouth feel is different, their bubbles behave differently - they are very different drinks.

If what you are drinking is black, then it's a stout. If it's brown, then it's probably an ale. If it's a light tan, it's a lager or an IPA.

And speaking as an alcoholic, "to be sociable" is a terrible reason to be drinking alcohol, especially if it's not even a drink you enjoy. Order something you like instead.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2019, 05:10:42 AM »
Guinness is an example of a stout. And yes, there are other stouts, and they are black. And they don't taste anything like a lager, ale or pilsner. So when you said that your Guinness "tasted like beer", no it didn't.

To me, it tasted like beer.  I’m not a beer connoisseur.  I’d drink perhaps half a glass once a year to be sociable.  More than that, and I’m almost intoxicated.  And I can’t tell  the difference between white wine and red wine either.  I can’t taste any grapes in them, let alone citrus, berries, etc wine connoisseurs appear to be able to detect.

You don't need to be a connoisseur to taste the difference between a lager and a stout. They're as different as chalk and the smell of your grandmother's kitchen. It's only through a technicality of their production process that they're both referred to as "beer".

Maybe.  If I drank a lager and a stout, and was told which is which.  To me, there’s not much difference, certainly not as much as your analogy (or are you suggesting that one is as odourless as chalk?). But I don’t drink beer, any beer, frequently.  If I’m offered beer in a restaurant, and am asked which type I want, my answer is always ‘whatever,’ because they taste the same to me.  Like beer.

I really don’t like beer.  Or wine.  I only drink them to be sociable.

I guarantee that unless you have hypogeusia, which to be fair you might, the difference between a stout and a lager is VERY strong. They look different, they smell different, they taste different, their mouth feel is different, their bubbles behave differently - they are very different drinks.

If what you are drinking is black, then it's a stout. If it's brown, then it's probably an ale. If it's a light tan, it's a lager or an IPA.

And speaking as an alcoholic, "to be sociable" is a terrible reason to be drinking alcohol, especially if it's not even a drink you enjoy. Order something you like instead.

Well, that explains you. 

I can’t tell the difference between beers because 1.  I only have it once a year, if that.  2.  I’m not told what beer I’m having.  3.  Even if I knew, I have forgotten what I previously had the next time I drink beer again.

I don’t drink much beer, because I only drink to be sociable.  I’m not particularly sociable, so I don’t drink much.
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2019, 11:08:09 AM »
They mentioned in passing the rather famous dissertation by Frédéric Brochet in which he dyed some white wine red and completely fooled his subjects. I was disappointed that they did not replicate this. So to heck with them, I'm going to do it this weekend. Dying the wine would take a bit more prep than I am willing to put in. Getting the color just right might be difficult. I think I'll just go with blindfolds. Any suggestions?

A gal I know was once in Ireland and went to the Jameson distillery. The tour guide asked for a volunteer to pick out a bourbon, an Irish whiskey, and a scotch from three glasses. She took a sip from each one and nailed it immediately. He had her do it two more times and she still nailed it. I guess he wasn't used to that especially considering she's women. Katie knows her alcohol.

I feel fairly confident that I could nail it too. Bourbon is sweet. Scotch is peaty. Irish whiskey is mother's milk. Even the crap from Jameson.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:19:57 AM by gebobs »

Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2019, 11:08:51 AM »


If what you are drinking is black, then it's a stout.

OR it could be a Black Lager, a common style in Germany.
It would taste quite different from either a helles or a stout. Although the roasted flavor of the malt might have some commonality with some stouts, its body amnd character is quite different.

You can compare two different Guinness and find major differences.
The bottled Extra Stout is more syrupy, sweet and considerably stronger.
The Draught Guinness has a much different mouth feel due to the nitro and has a fairly low alcohol content (4.2%).

Compare Draught Murphys with Draught Guinness and you can perhaps taste a difference, but blinded it would be hard to tell which is which.
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Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2019, 11:15:14 AM »
I guess George's lack of experience with beer showed there. No two beers are alike, even without considering the differences between lager, ale, pilsner and stout.
I know it makes me unusual but I would never be able to differentiate any of the lagers I drink regularly if they were in unmarked glasses.
I just dont pay that much attention when I drink them.
Im reasonably good with spirits.

But that’s not what was happening in the actual test; he put a cheap-ass American lager up against a hoppy ale. The bitterness of the latter would be unmistakable.

I would not be at all surprised if a taste test between two lagers had different results.

The beer used was actually a Belgian style wheat beer (Allagash from Maine) where the flavor is coming more from the malt and the type of yeast used (which is distinctive) plus some coriander and maybe some orange peel--rather than the hops
 It is similar to Hoegaarden.

It was Jay who mistakingly referred to it as an IPA or as a hoppy beer.

But yeah, it would be very difficult to not note the difference between it and a Bud Light.


I agree, a comparison of Bud light--or even better, regular Bud and a Czech Pilsner --or even a US microbrew Pils, would be far more interesting.
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2019, 11:19:01 AM »
The bottled Extra Stout is more syrupy, sweet and considerably stronger.

Barf. ;-)

Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2019, 11:23:28 AM »
The bottled Extra Stout is more syrupy, sweet and considerably stronger.

Barf. ;-)

There is now a re-introduction of a Guinness product called "Foreign Extra Stout", even more of the same.

There is a Jamaican beer--Dragon Stout, which is similar. (Guinness has a brewery some place in Africa that Brews for the African and carribean market, iirc correctly their flagship Guinness is a sweet and strong Stout.)
I recall in the 1980s the ONLY people who would buy Guinness in the supermarket I worked in were Jamaicans.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2019, 11:42:18 AM »
The beer used was actually a Belgian style wheat beer (Allagash from Maine) where the flavor is coming more from the malt and the type of yeast used (which is distinctive) plus some coriander and maybe some orange peel--rather than the hops
 It is similar to Hoegaarden.

Wheat lager is the only kind of beer that makes sense to me. Anything else is just too bitter.

Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2019, 12:00:14 PM »
The beer used was actually a Belgian style wheat beer (Allagash from Maine) where the flavor is coming more from the malt and the type of yeast used (which is distinctive) plus some coriander and maybe some orange peel--rather than the hops
 It is similar to Hoegaarden.

Wheat lager is the only kind of beer that makes sense to me. Anything else is just too bitter.

Just to be extra pedantic, the beers I mentioned in the quote are ales  rather than lagers.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2019, 12:18:13 PM »
My mistake. But, as you say, still difficult to mistake for a Bud Light. Interesting, though, that Jay seemingly mistook the other flavors for hops.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2019, 12:28:12 PM »
Also, I realize they’re probably holding it for the return of WTN next week, but I REALLY hope they’ll set the record straight about Valentina Tereshkova. That they fell for a hoax and conspiracy theory is something they really need to address.
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Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2019, 12:35:56 PM »
I am a certified beer judge - for judging homebrew contests.  I had to learn a lot about different styles of beer including techniques, regional differences, and ingredients.  And I am well aware of how easily people (including me) can be fooled by these tasting panels.

Here's what my group of beer lovers used to do to train ourselves:

Pick a style - this month it's German Pilsener (eg).
Everybody brings two identical bottles, so for 5 people we'd have 10 bottles of 5 different German Pilseners.

Round 1, open tasting - we'd sample one beer at a time, discuss the brand, make note of any special characteristics, lots of table talk.
Round 2, blind tasting - a proctor would bring out the same 5 beers without identification and then we'd all try individually to identify them from our notes.  The proctor would be the only one who knew which was which.

It was quite rare that anyone would get a perfect score - even if we only had 3 beers, but I definitely did learn a lot about how to taste and describe the details of flavor and aroma and visuals - which is what homebrewer contestants want us to write on their entries.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2019, 12:54:02 PM »

For it to have been an experiment it would have had to be double-blinded, not just single. George and the rogues are very aware of this. Thus they intended it as a game.

Yes, and  they also would have needed more subjects and randomized the order they did the tasting; and controlled all behavior during the test (like no second tastes; and the same palette cleanse; between tastes; and same time between tastes).

But it’s not a waste of time, and not just an amusing distraction or even unscientific.

This was an observation, which is the first step in the scientific method. Next, formulate a hypothesis, then do the double-blind randomized trial to test the hypothesis and publish the result.




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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #732
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2019, 04:55:27 PM »

For it to have been an experiment it would have had to be double-blinded, not just single. George and the rogues are very aware of this. Thus they intended it as a game.

Yes, and  they also would have needed more subjects and randomized the order they did the tasting; and controlled all behavior during the test (like no second tastes; and the same palette cleanse; between tastes; and same time between tastes).

But it’s not a waste of time, and not just an amusing distraction or even unscientific.

This was an observation, which is the first step in the scientific method. Next, formulate a hypothesis, then do the double-blind randomized trial to test the hypothesis and publish the result.




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I wonder what the hypothesis concerning beers would be?  That beer experts are highly successful in identifying the identity of beers double-blinded?  Or compared to completely uninterested novices who have beer no more than once a year (like me) do much better?  If it’s the second hypothesis, I know what the answer would be.
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