Author Topic: Expatriation  (Read 1019 times)

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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2019, 11:09:50 PM »
I moved to NZ nearly 40 years ago, resident since 1983 and citizen since 1993... sworn in by the Mayor of Ashburton.

Given the median age in NZ, I feel confident in saying, when asked how long I have been here, longer than most.

I was probably close to bailing to Canada in the late 60's but got lucky wit not getting conscripted to fight on the wrong side of the Vietnamese war for independence.

Moving to Aotearoa, Te Waipounamu in particular, was better than I ever imagined.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2019, 11:23:15 AM »
I visited NZ. Beautiful country.
Daniel
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Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2019, 12:01:06 PM »
We packed up and crossed the border into the ol' USA a time back (good thing we didn't have kids).  Didn't care for it, and a couple years later went back from whence we came (which is the desired outcome, right?).

Healthcare anxiety was a major factor. 

Also, we were discussing having a family and couldn't imagine for one hot second having and/or raising a child in that country, knowing the alternative available to us.
Big Mike
Grande Prairie AB Canada

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2019, 12:40:08 PM »
As someone who toys with this idea from time to time, I will follow this thread with interest.

I would imagine an issue would be with paying into retirement, that sort of thing. Here, I am already "in the system", part of what I earn goes to my retirement, as the law dictates. What happens if I move to another country and work there? Will they pay into a separate retirement fund for me, even though I am not a citizen?

I have only lived abroad when I was an exchange student for a semester back when I studied at university. And that was for 4-5 months.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2019, 01:59:58 PM »
I've been to cities where it is safe to walk alone at night.
Still wouldn't make it bad advice.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2019, 02:45:56 PM »
Define "safe to walk alone at night". I'd assume that during nighttime, shit happens in Caracas as well as in Tokyo, though way more shit happens in the former compared to the latter (per capita). Still, shit could happen to you during nighttime in Tokyo, even though it's one of the safest cities in the world.

Where to you draw the line?
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Online jt512

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2019, 03:32:03 PM »
Define "safe to walk alone at night".


Probability of anything bad happening to you so low there is no reason to worry about.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2019, 03:44:49 PM »
... What happens if I move to another country and work there? Will they pay into a separate retirement fund for me, even though I am not a citizen?

Probably depends on the country. Here in the U.S. if you work legally (i.e. if you have a work visa) your employer would deduct social security from your pay, assuming they're obeying the law. But that wouldn't amount to much of a retirement if you start late in life, and even after a lifetime it isn't much unless you earned a lot. If you have a high-paying job and work long enough it can be substantial. Payments in to social security in the U.S. are a percentage of your pay, but are capped, so the super-rich only pay in as much as the upper middle class. Payments out from social security are a percentage of your highest level of pay, and are not capped. See a pattern there? If you are rich you clean up. If you are poor you don't get enough to live on. The U.S. is a really great country to be rich in.

The only reason I can imagine for moving from Sweden to the U.S. is that in much of the U.S. it's not as cold.  ;)
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2019, 04:50:49 PM »
... What happens if I move to another country and work there? Will they pay into a separate retirement fund for me, even though I am not a citizen?

Probably depends on the country. Here in the U.S. if you work legally (i.e. if you have a work visa) your employer would deduct social security from your pay, assuming they're obeying the law. But that wouldn't amount to much of a retirement if you start late in life, and even after a lifetime it isn't much unless you earned a lot. If you have a high-paying job and work long enough it can be substantial. Payments in to social security in the U.S. are a percentage of your pay, but are capped, so the super-rich only pay in as much as the upper middle class. Payments out from social security are a percentage of your highest level of pay, and are not capped. See a pattern there? If you are rich you clean up. If you are poor you don't get enough to live on. The U.S. is a really great country to be rich in.

I would not intend to break the law.

Would that work even if I lived and worked in the US as a non-citizen? What if I moved out of the US, either back to Sweden, or somewhere else?

I guess the US is a great country to be rich in, from a purely monetary perspective. But even the super-rich Americans still get to live in a country with all the social problems of the US, and don't have the right to five weeks vacation a year, like we do.

The only reason I can imagine for moving from Sweden to the U.S. is that in much of the U.S. it's not as cold.  ;)

Believe it or not, I quite like our climate. And Sweden is probably far less cold than you think, due to the Gulf Stream.

But in any case, the US would not be my primary choice of location. I don't dislike it (at least not as much as I think some other forum members do), I think certain parts of it would probably be rather pleasant to live in. Those include New England, Minnesota, Oregon, and Washington. But there are other countries that are simply more preferable than the US to my mind. Those would be, in no particular order, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, and Denmark.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2019, 05:49:14 PM »
But even the super-rich Americans still get to live in a country with all the social problems of the US, and don't have the right to five weeks vacation a year, like we do.

I think perhaps you underestimate the super rich.  They don't have vacation, their life is a vacation.
Big Mike
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2019, 07:41:03 PM »
... What happens if I move to another country and work there? Will they pay into a separate retirement fund for me, even though I am not a citizen?

Probably depends on the country. Here in the U.S. if you work legally (i.e. if you have a work visa) your employer would deduct social security from your pay, assuming they're obeying the law. But that wouldn't amount to much of a retirement if you start late in life, and even after a lifetime it isn't much unless you earned a lot. If you have a high-paying job and work long enough it can be substantial. Payments in to social security in the U.S. are a percentage of your pay, but are capped, so the super-rich only pay in as much as the upper middle class. Payments out from social security are a percentage of your highest level of pay, and are not capped. See a pattern there? If you are rich you clean up. If you are poor you don't get enough to live on. The U.S. is a really great country to be rich in.

I would not intend to break the law.

Would that work even if I lived and worked in the US as a non-citizen? What if I moved out of the US, either back to Sweden, or somewhere else?

I guess the US is a great country to be rich in, from a purely monetary perspective. But even the super-rich Americans still get to live in a country with all the social problems of the US, and don't have the right to five weeks vacation a year, like we do.

The only reason I can imagine for moving from Sweden to the U.S. is that in much of the U.S. it's not as cold.  ;)

Believe it or not, I quite like our climate. And Sweden is probably far less cold than you think, due to the Gulf Stream.

But in any case, the US would not be my primary choice of location. I don't dislike it (at least not as much as I think some other forum members do), I think certain parts of it would probably be rather pleasant to live in. Those include New England, Minnesota, Oregon, and Washington. But there are other countries that are simply more preferable than the US to my mind. Those would be, in no particular order, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, and Denmark.

Yes. As long as you are here with a work visa, social security would be collected. I'm pretty sure you'd get nothing back out of it when you returned to Sweden.

The super-rich don't live in places where there are social problems. Even the upper middle class for the most part live in places that are quite safe and peaceful. And as Amysrevenge pointed out, you don't need paid vacation when you are super-rich. Hell, I'm just pretty well off and I live in paradise in the U.S. (since the U.S. stole it from the original inhabitants).

I do know that Sweden is not as cold as, say, North Dakota, where I lived for close on to three decades. But it's a lot colder than Maui. And your ocean temperature is a LOT colder than Maui. But I wasn't trying to talk you into coming to the U.S. As I said, the weather (in SOME parts of the U.S.) is the only thing that's better here than Sweden. I really like the weather where I am. And paddling in water so warm that if I don't get a chance to jump out and swim I'm disappointed.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2019, 02:59:25 AM »
I will say it is nice to live in a country that has enjoyed a female Prime Minister (thrice), has universal health care (with all the problems associated with that) and has had recently a respectfully comfortable buyback of all MSSA's (now illegal). 

Our pension is fairly similar to the US social security, actually a bit more than I would get from the US. One needs to have been resident in the country for some years (I can't remember how long) before collecting.

And, of course, we have superior beef and lamb, wine, dairy and coffee (only surpassed by Italy, IMHO). 

Mind you, the scenery is overrated... don't visit.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Online 2397

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2019, 04:19:24 AM »
I do know that Sweden is not as cold as, say, North Dakota, where I lived for close on to three decades. But it's a lot colder than Maui. And your ocean temperature is a LOT colder than Maui. But I wasn't trying to talk you into coming to the U.S. As I said, the weather (in SOME parts of the U.S.) is the only thing that's better here than Sweden. I really like the weather where I am. And paddling in water so warm that if I don't get a chance to jump out and swim I'm disappointed.

Northern Sweden can get quite cold. The record lowest temperatures are about the same, -52.6°C (Vuoggatjålme, 1966) and −51°C (Parshall, 1936).

I couldn't find a site that listed Sweden and North Dakota in the same format, so I'm not sure how they compare overall. But this page has some stats for different parts of Sweden; https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/sweden

And the US page notes that "In Fargo, North Dakota, the average in January is -12.7 °C (9.1 °F), like in northern Sweden".
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 04:43:26 AM by 2397 »

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2019, 10:49:46 AM »
I do know that Sweden is not as cold as, say, North Dakota, where I lived for close on to three decades. But it's a lot colder than Maui. And your ocean temperature is a LOT colder than Maui. But I wasn't trying to talk you into coming to the U.S. As I said, the weather (in SOME parts of the U.S.) is the only thing that's better here than Sweden. I really like the weather where I am. And paddling in water so warm that if I don't get a chance to jump out and swim I'm disappointed.

Northern Sweden can get quite cold. The record lowest temperatures are about the same, -52.6°C (Vuoggatjålme, 1966) and −51°C (Parshall, 1936).

I couldn't find a site that listed Sweden and North Dakota in the same format, so I'm not sure how they compare overall. But this page has some stats for different parts of Sweden; https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/sweden

And the US page notes that "In Fargo, North Dakota, the average in January is -12.7 °C (9.1 °F), like in northern Sweden".

The coldest I ever experienced in North Dakota was minus 30 F. I don't think it's ever reached minus 50 C there. But the real killer in ND is the persistent, fierce wind. I once went out for a walk (very well bundled up) when the wind chill was minus 80 F. And the winter is long and unrelenting.
Daniel
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Offline wastrel

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Re: Expatriation
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2019, 12:48:50 PM »
I half-seriously looked into emigrating to New Zealand around November of 2016.

My profession is on the "skill shortage" list, and so I could apply for a work visa there, though following through on that is something I can't imagine actually doing, so that's about as far as I got.

 

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