Poll

How painful is an ice cream headache on a scale of 0 to 10? There is no pain above 10 because you pass out.

0: no pain at all
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10: uncontrollably writhing in all-consuming agony

Author Topic: Pain Scales  (Read 556 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2019, 04:50:05 PM »
The normal 1 to 10 scale is useful because no matter who you are, a 1 means "I hardly notice it" and 10 means "It's so intolerable I cannot stand it and I cannot imagine anything worse." Since pain is inherently subjective, there can be no absolute scale. This lets the medical professional get an idea of your state of mind.
Daniel
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2019, 04:50:49 PM »
When my appendix went bad I went to sick call dressed for work. (At that time it was a suit with optional shoulder holster.) When the doc saw me he said "You know, when you feel this bad you could go straight to the ER." I replied, "I'm still standing, so I don't consider it an emergency."

It's the hard-headed Oirish in me.

You could have done your own surgery, tough guy.

But probably not while standing up.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2019, 05:01:17 PM »
When my appendix went bad I went to sick call dressed for work. (At that time it was a suit with optional shoulder holster.) When the doc saw me he said "You know, when you feel this bad you could go straight to the ER." I replied, "I'm still standing, so I don't consider it an emergency."

It's the hard-headed Oirish in me.

You could have done your own surgery, tough guy.
Could've, yes, but the Navy frowns on that.
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Online brilligtove

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2019, 05:57:48 PM »
Your understanding (or perhaps your experience) of pain intensity is fundamentally different from mine.  I do not think that it is possible to separate intensity from quality, duration, individual sensitivity, past experience of pain, and numerous other factors. Indeed, I think that pain intensity is as fundamentally subjective as any other aspect of pain. You are insistent that you are able to separate pain intensity from other aspects of pain, and I have no reason to reject your claim; I request the same respect for my own insistence that I am not able to do so and that, for me, intensity of pain is, in fact, inextricably linked to its other characteristics. Your insistence that all other aspects of the pain are irrelevant to my rating of the pain is, therefore, unjustified and, in my opinion, offensive.

At no point have I denied your experience, or even disagreed with your points. My hypothesis was that there is a kind of pain that individuals could consistently rate for intensity. That does not appear to be the case.

I did not intend any offence.


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Online brilligtove

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2019, 06:08:26 PM »
When my appendix went bad I went to sick call dressed for work. (At that time it was a suit with optional shoulder holster.) When the doc saw me he said "You know, when you feel this bad you could go straight to the ER." I replied, "I'm still standing, so I don't consider it an emergency."

It's the hard-headed Oirish in me.

This is why I think some sort of calibration - subjective though it would be - would be useful. It seems such a thing is not real however. Too bad.

I'll stick to this in the future:
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2019, 06:49:45 PM »
Is a "10" holding your hand in a candle flame or having an ice pick stuck in your eye?
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Online brilligtove

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2019, 07:03:42 PM »
I'd probably go with 8 on the flame and 9 on the pick.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2019, 07:08:59 PM »
I'd probably go with 8 on the flame and 9 on the pick.
Galileo, when scolded for recanting his thesis on the solar system, said "how long would you have your hand held in a candle flame before changing your mind about anything?"
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2019, 07:28:35 PM »
Since we're talking about self-reported pain, "unconscious" falls nowhere on the scale since you cannot report it. The ice pick in the eye sounds like a 20 to me. On a scale of 1 to 10.

Galileo, when scolded for recanting his thesis on the solar system, said "how long would you have your hand held in a candle flame before changing your mind about anything?"

I doubt Galileo ever said that. But it's an excellent point. Threatened with the Inquisition I'd have adopted any position they wanted. Note that Galileo was never tortured. He was shown the instruments of torture. That's all it would have taken for me.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2019, 07:32:15 PM »
The phrase "shown the instruments of torture" sounds like a euphemism.
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2019, 08:10:17 PM »

I doubt Galileo ever said that.
Why?
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2019, 08:12:07 PM »
The phrase "shown the instruments of torture" sounds like a euphemism.
The Inquisition made sure people knew what was waiting for them if they stepped out of line. The Malleus Maleficarum was a fun read back then.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2019, 01:41:13 AM »
At no point have I denied your experience

But you have.  You have repeatedly told me that things (such as pain duration, quality, etc) which I have said in my experience are inextricably linked to pain intensity are irrelevant to a discussion of it. In doing so, you are dismissing my experience of pain and insisting that yours is correct.

Quote
I did not intend any offense

I do not think that you intended offense; I am trying to explain that you have it, regardless of your intentions.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2019, 11:13:19 AM »

I doubt Galileo ever said that.
Why?

It just sounds to me like a made-up quote. Further, Galileo would not have been criticized by anybody for caving in to the Inquisition. Everybody knew how bad it was to fall into their clutches.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline seamas

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Re: Pain Scales
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2019, 11:32:13 AM »

I doubt Galileo ever said that.
Why?

It just sounds to me like a made-up quote. Further, Galileo would not have been criticized by anybody for caving in to the Inquisition. Everybody knew how bad it was to fall into their clutches.

Well everyone may have known what it would be like if they did fall into their clutches, but no one ever expects that.
With one good reason.

Fear and surprise.