Author Topic: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"  (Read 341 times)

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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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"China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« on: July 12, 2019, 06:47:43 PM »
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China's religious persecution is a secularist issue

China may be the most godless country in the world, but it is far from being a secular one. Stephen Evans says the intensifying religious persecution in the repressive state must be condemned.

China is by far the most godless country in the world. According to one recent survey, 67% of respondents in China considered themselves 'convinced atheists'.

But China is far from being a secularist state. This is evidenced by its latest draconian crackdown on religious freedom. Secularism is a principled defender of freedom of religion, belief and expression. China is a serial abuser.

...

Hollow cries of 'religious persecution' from groups seeking religious privileges in the west belittle genuine claims and increase scepticism around the claims of people who really are being persecuted for their faith or belief. But what's going on in China really is religious persecution.

Religious freedom, along with the right to speak freely and question ideologies and beliefs is the absolute cornerstone of free and democratic societies. Believers and nonbelievers have common cause in protecting these fundamental values – and should unite in condemning religious oppression, wherever it is happening and whoever is being oppressed.

I agree.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Online bachfiend

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2019, 07:27:04 PM »
What if you have a religion, or a sect of a religion, which seeks to overthrow the government and its ideology, and replace it with its own ideology?  This applies both in China’s authoritarian capitalistic system as well as in liberal democracies.

Religion doesn’t have a free pass to do whatever it wants.  As far as I’m concerned, religion doesn’t have the right to indoctrinate children (but preventing it is impossible).  It also shouldn’t have the right or freedom to restrict my freedom.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2019, 07:35:52 PM »
What if you have a religion, or a sect of a religion, which seeks to overthrow the government and its ideology, and replace it with its own ideology?  This applies both in China’s authoritarian capitalistic system as well as in liberal democracies.

Yeah, that's the justification that the Chinese government uses for sending the Uyghurs to re-education camps.

Online bachfiend

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2019, 11:57:14 PM »
What if you have a religion, or a sect of a religion, which seeks to overthrow the government and its ideology, and replace it with its own ideology?  This applies both in China’s authoritarian capitalistic system as well as in liberal democracies.

Yeah, that's the justification that the Chinese government uses for sending the Uyghurs to re-education camps.

Does a religion have the right to freedom and free speech if it seeks to restrict the freedom and free speech of people not belonging to its religion?  Do you know what the Uyghurs are hoping to achieve?
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2019, 04:27:58 PM »
In a liberal society (which China isn't), then yes, we permit groups freedom of speech, even if those groups would eliminate it if given the chance. And I would guess that far from all of those Muslims and Christians and others who have displeased the Communist Party are actually a threat to their fellow humans.

From what I understand, the Chinese regime only permits certain religious denominations that they can control, or at least keep under its leash. Thus it is not even a secular state, in the meaning that religion and government are separate. It is a (nominally) communist regime entangled with religion. Oh my...
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline fonebone

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 09:06:07 AM »
After the behavior Ive seen from American Christians, I find it hard to have any sympathy or empathy for anyone belonging to their religion.  These people seem intent on subjugating everyone and take pleasure in dispensing pain to anyone that is not "them."  Maybe China isnt wrong in this case.

Offline CookieMustard

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 09:42:23 AM »

Quote
China's religious persecution is a secularist issue

China may be the most godless country in the world, but it is far from being a secular one. Stephen Evans says the intensifying religious persecution in the repressive state must be condemned.

China is by far the most godless country in the world. According to one recent survey, 67% of respondents in China considered themselves 'convinced atheists'.

But China is far from being a secularist state. This is evidenced by its latest draconian crackdown on religious freedom. Secularism is a principled defender of freedom of religion, belief and expression. China is a serial abuser.


If it is true that there is "intensifying religious persecution" and a "draconian crackdown on religious freedom" in China, then there is reason to be suspicious of that 67% figure.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2019, 08:15:34 AM »
After the behavior Ive seen from American Christians, I find it hard to have any sympathy or empathy for anyone belonging to their religion.  These people seem intent on subjugating everyone and take pleasure in dispensing pain to anyone that is not "them."  Maybe China isnt wrong in this case.

Really? So because some Christians in the US are nasty, that justifies China's religious repression?

What if someone said something similar about Muslims, based on the 9/11 hijackers? Surely we would all recognize it as wrong, because it is wrong to generalize about people based on association like that. And the same applies to Christians.

China is not a secular state.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "China's religious persecution is a secularist issue"
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2019, 08:16:39 AM »

Quote
China's religious persecution is a secularist issue

China may be the most godless country in the world, but it is far from being a secular one. Stephen Evans says the intensifying religious persecution in the repressive state must be condemned.

China is by far the most godless country in the world. According to one recent survey, 67% of respondents in China considered themselves 'convinced atheists'.

But China is far from being a secularist state. This is evidenced by its latest draconian crackdown on religious freedom. Secularism is a principled defender of freedom of religion, belief and expression. China is a serial abuser.


If it is true that there is "intensifying religious persecution" and a "draconian crackdown on religious freedom" in China, then there is reason to be suspicious of that 67% figure.

Yes, likely so. There is probably a lot of pressure to conform to the officially endorsed viewpoints of the regime.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

 

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