Author Topic: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"  (Read 772 times)

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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2019, 10:02:41 AM »
Given that one of the charges against Socrates was atheism, one suspects that belief or faith along with following the forms was important to at least some of the Greeks.  My brief internet search indicates that this seems to be largely true of most of the polytheistic religions. 

It seems more like the ancients typically didn't make much of a distinction between faith and ritual.  Why wouldn't you do the rituals if you believed? 

And of course within Christianity, there has long been a debate as to which was more important, faith or works and whether works alone can get you into heaven.  Catholics being somewhat in the middle on the matter while protestants seem to go hard one way or they other depending on denomination. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:08:34 AM by Ah.hell »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2019, 10:51:01 AM »
At least some individuals in ancient Greece were sentenced to death for impiety.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline daniel1948

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2019, 12:34:21 PM »
Impiety is disrespect for the gods. Not disbelief in them.
Daniel
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Offline John Albert

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2019, 12:36:55 PM »
I don't see any reason to believe Paul was the first guy to come up with the idea that belief was the primary thing that mattered. If I remember correctly, demonstrations of faith were a requirement of some classical mystery cults.

It seems more likely that Saul was exposed to that idea somewhere in his travels and decided to incorporate it into his version of Christianity. Being a literate Jew and Roman citizen, he simply may have been the first to have written those ideas down for posterity.

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2019, 01:49:48 PM »
Given that one of the charges against Socrates was atheism, one suspects that belief or faith along with following the forms was important to at least some of the Greeks.  My brief internet search indicates that this seems to be largely true of most of the polytheistic religions. 

It seems more like the ancients typically didn't make much of a distinction between faith and ritual.  Why wouldn't you do the rituals if you believed? 

And of course within Christianity, there has long been a debate as to which was more important, faith or works and whether works alone can get you into heaven.  Catholics being somewhat in the middle on the matter while protestants seem to go hard one way or they other depending on denomination.

If you are talking about Justification the Catholics reject the idea of any palagianistic view of works. Their belief is more along the lines of, "A good tree will bear good fruit." if someone isn't doing good works there is no way they can have true faith. Effective Grace.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: "The Humble Origins of the Abrahamic Religions"
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2019, 02:11:29 PM »
If you are talking about Justification the Catholics reject the idea of any palagianistic view of works. Their belief is more along the lines of, "A good tree will bear good fruit." if someone isn't doing good works there is no way they can have true faith. Effective Grace.
I once knew a schismatic babtist who more or less turned that on its head. Something along the lines of only good christians doe good works or something. 

 

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