Author Topic: Episode #739  (Read 854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2858
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2019, 02:44:52 PM »
God gave people free will so that he could blame them for being the way he made them.

Offline bachfiend

  • Not Any Kind of Moderator
  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2019, 03:52:25 PM »
God gave people free will so that he could blame them for being the way he made them.

I largely regard ‘free will’ as a free get out of jail ploy for the religious to explain the existence of evil and suffering in a world created by a loving all-knowing, all-powerful God.  As part of Leibnitz’s theodicy.

Free will to the irreligious is largely irrelevant.  We can’t even agree what it is.
Gebt ihr ihr ihr Buch zurück?

Offline daniel1948

  • Isn’t a
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8812
  • I'd rather be paddling
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2019, 04:57:16 PM »
It doesn't have to be either genetically-determined, or a "choice." I think what Steve was saying is that there isn't one single gene for homosexuality, but that there are multiple genetic and epigenetic factors. And of course there are bisexual people, who, though they may not have "chosen" to be bisexual, do choose who to have a relationship with. (We all choose who to have a relationship with, pending the agreement of the other person or persons, but a bisexual person is choosing from a pool that includes more than just one gender.)

In Fargo, ND, back around the early 2000's, some activists petitioned the Family Y (aka the YMCA) to recognize gay couples and their kids for the family membership rate. The fuckwad Bible thumpers raised a stink and the board of the Y had a gathering to hear comments from the community. The activists decided to frame it as an economic issue rather than an equality issue, and so the board cut the Gordian knot by instituting a "Household" membership. They refused to acknowledge that a gay couple is a "family" but they gave them the same membership rate by declaring that any group of people all residing at the same address could join as a "household" and pay the family rate.

They wanted to be acknowledged as equal to opposite-sex couples, but by making a tangential argument, all they got was a rather small reduction in their membership fee.

The real issue here is that every adult should have the legal right to engage in sex with any other consenting adult, and the genders of the people involved is irrelevant. And nobody has the moral right to deny them, no matter how "sincerely" they believe their asinine religion or the rantings of their asshole preacher.

Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline seamas

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2472
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2019, 11:22:24 AM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

Offline stands2reason

  • Empiricist, Positivist, Militant Agnostic
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10645
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2019, 11:42:06 AM »
God gave people free will so that he could blame them for being the way he made them.

If God could create truly contra-causal free will, then he couldn't have omniscience to know what it would do. Technically, even this is incoherent, because takes the idea seriously. Actually, since such a being would exist outside of our universe's time, they would create the universe, and it would unfold, the whole thing having happened according to whatever initial conditions. So, if God is an alien, even they might not be able to predict much if quantum randomness is truly random (or at least appears random even at the level of science of such creator gods).

Or God writes the universe's firmware to use Final Destination mechanics: technically, we all have free will, but if God incorrectly predicts our decision, your existence has to be wiped out in a way that doesn't stop His plan from unfolding the way he predicted.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:44:41 AM by stands2reason »

Offline daniel1948

  • Isn’t a
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8812
  • I'd rather be paddling
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2019, 03:13:51 PM »
God gave people free will so that he could blame them for being the way he made them.

If God could create truly contra-causal free will, then he couldn't have omniscience to know what it would do. Technically, even this is incoherent, because takes the idea seriously. Actually, since such a being would exist outside of our universe's time, they would create the universe, and it would unfold, the whole thing having happened according to whatever initial conditions. So, if God is an alien, even they might not be able to predict much if quantum randomness is truly random (or at least appears random even at the level of science of such creator gods).

Or God writes the universe's firmware to use Final Destination mechanics: technically, we all have free will, but if God incorrectly predicts our decision, your existence has to be wiped out in a way that doesn't stop His plan from unfolding the way he predicted.

I understood when I was five years old that the mainstream Christian definition of God was a logical impossibility. Christians would argue that you can have free will even though God knows what you will do with it, but that's just bullshit because even in the common conception of free will, your decisions are strongly influenced by circumstances outside your control. Quantum uncertainty just means that even the idea of "knowing the future" is meaningless, because the future does not exist until it happens. "An unperformed experiment has no results." The future is an unperformed experiment. It's not merely that you "cannot know it." It's that there's nothing there to know. Natural language can construct statements or phrases that have no meaning, and "knowing the future" is one of them.

For the matter of that, the very concept of an entity existing "outside of time and space" is meaningless drivel invented by con artists to dupe people into giving them their money or other stuff.
Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Tassie Dave

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2019, 03:50:56 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11750
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2019, 04:09:06 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Global Moderator
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 16245
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2019, 04:56:12 PM »
As we learn more about the brain though we are finding that many of our choices are not really "choices" at all.
But I guess a free will discussion may be a bit much for the average homophobe.

Offline Swagomatic

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2733
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2019, 05:04:33 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frampton's thing was way simpler than that.  It was a plastic tube attached to a small driver.  The guitar was played through the  driver, and the tube was placed in his mouth. He then played the guitar into his mouth, which was used to shape the sounds. 
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
---George Bernard Shaw

Offline jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2536
    • jt512
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2019, 05:29:55 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frampton's thing was way simpler than that.  It was a plastic tube attached to a small driver.  The guitar was played through the  driver, and the tube was placed in his mouth. He then played the guitar into his mouth, which was used to shape the sounds.


Whatever it was, it was really grating.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline seamas

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2472
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2019, 05:30:20 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.

His was made by Bob Heil, who first made one for Joe Walsh. There were other similar talk boxes around (Including one called "the Bag" by Kustom)

How it works is the guitar signal is sent to the box, which has a speaker driver connected to a surgical tube --the other end of which is in the mouth of the musician--the sound of the instrument is then shaped by the musicians' mouth--and then that sound is picked up by a microphone, and then onto a PA or other amp.

I don't recall ever seeing footage of someone using one without drooling.

Offline Swagomatic

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2733
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2019, 05:49:51 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frampton's thing was way simpler than that.  It was a plastic tube attached to a small driver.  The guitar was played through the  driver, and the tube was placed in his mouth. He then played the guitar into his mouth, which was used to shape the sounds.


Whatever it was, it was really grating.

I think I was a junior in high school when Frampton Comes Alive was released.  I was so sick of that album.  It was on the radio constantly for what seemed like my entire 17th year.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
---George Bernard Shaw

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11750
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2019, 06:05:24 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frampton's thing was way simpler than that.  It was a plastic tube attached to a small driver.  The guitar was played through the  driver, and the tube was placed in his mouth. He then played the guitar into his mouth, which was used to shape the sounds.


Whatever it was, it was really grating.

I think I was a junior in high school when Frampton Comes Alive was released.  I was so sick of that album.  It was on the radio constantly for what seemed like my entire 17th year.

So out of curiosity, I looked up Peter Frampton on Google Patents, and didn't find a patent for his gadget, but found patents under that name (with a different middle name) for some strange accounting things. But what's remarkable is that the company these patents were registered under was called: Comes Alive.

What's up with that?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2536
    • jt512
Re: Episode #739
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 06:07:00 PM »
Jay's insistence that Peter Frampton was the greatest use of a Talk Box only shows his ignorance of Jeff Beck.

or Stevie Wonder.

Peter Frampton did use it well on his live albums. I don't think the featured song was the best example.
Me recollection from back in the day was that Frampton used his own patented invention that picked up vibrations from his vocal cords and those excited the pickups on his electric guitar, which at the same time were being excited by the guitar strings. The sound we heard was coming from his guitar amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frampton's thing was way simpler than that.  It was a plastic tube attached to a small driver.  The guitar was played through the  driver, and the tube was placed in his mouth. He then played the guitar into his mouth, which was used to shape the sounds.


Whatever it was, it was really grating.

I think I was a junior in high school when Frampton Comes Alive was released.  I was so sick of that album.  It was on the radio constantly for what seemed like my entire 17th year.


Yeah.  And now, thanks to this thread, it's stuck back in my head.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.