Author Topic: Is there a French speaker in the house?  (Read 275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline daniel1948

  • Happy Man in a Boat
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9542
  • I'd rather be paddling
Is there a French speaker in the house?
« on: September 07, 2019, 09:14:23 PM »
I intend to return to French Polynesia some day, to swim with the whales again, and I want to try learn a bit of French before my next trip there. I downloaded a free French language program and found a free YouTube channel of French lessons. Perhaps someone would be willing to answer the occasional question.

For starters:

(I'm not going to attempt to type the accents, since I'm writing at my desktop computer.)

The teacher says, and the screen shows the words "en Angleterre" but it sounds to me as though she is saying "a nangleterre." Then the screen shows "en Espagne" but it sounds to me as though she is saying "a nespagne." She seems to be splitting the word "en" and attaching the "n" to the start of the country name.

Is this just a quirk of the teacher pronouncing slowly and carefully, or is this how it would actually be pronounced in French? If I was speaking English slowly for the benefit of a foreigner, I would say "in ... England," not "i nengland."

Thanks in advance for any help.
Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline albator

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 162
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2019, 08:05:48 AM »
Yes, you should add an n and  say ɑ̃nɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ instead of ɑ̃ ɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ but in this case I'd doubt most people would even notice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaison_(French)

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Global Moderator
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 16906
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 10:03:10 AM »
Yep. As pointed out, she is correct.
A common mistake of english speakers learning other european languages is to try to pronounce certain words phonetically in our own dialect.
At the moment you are reading the word, approximating the pronunciation and then experiencing confusion when the correct pronounciation doesnt match.
An alternate approach is to start with the pronunciation from the teacher and then learn how that sound is spelled. Not always possible of course but having that attitude can help get over such confusion a bit earlier I find.
Something other people find useful is to learn some songs in the language you are learning, because that way you are more trying to approximate the sound to fit with the music and will get closer to sounding like you should.

Offline daniel1948

  • Happy Man in a Boat
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9542
  • I'd rather be paddling
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 11:09:14 AM »
Yes, you should add an n and  say ɑ̃nɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ instead of ɑ̃ ɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ but in this case I'd doubt most people would even notice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaison_(French)

Thank you. Note that the teacher didn't say "ɑ̃nɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ." She inserted a distinct pause, "ɑ̃    nɑ̃ɡlətɛʁ." The Wikipedia article explains, though. I think the teacher inserted the pause, which would not be apparent in conversation, to clarify the syllable break.

Yep. As pointed out, she is correct.
A common mistake of english speakers learning other european languages is to try to pronounce certain words phonetically in our own dialect.
At the moment you are reading the word, approximating the pronunciation and then experiencing confusion when the correct pronounciation doesnt match.
An alternate approach is to start with the pronunciation from the teacher and then learn how that sound is spelled. Not always possible of course but having that attitude can help get over such confusion a bit earlier I find.
Something other people find useful is to learn some songs in the language you are learning, because that way you are more trying to approximate the sound to fit with the music and will get closer to sounding like you should.

My question wasn't about the pronunciation, but about the pause in the middle of the word "en." I studied French 55 years ago in high school. I think my pronunciation is better than average for a beginner. But I slip into pronouncing all foreign words as though they were Spanish because my brain sees non-English words as being the only other language I know.

In lesson 2 the teacher gave us the days of the week. Then had us repeat them. I found myself using the Spanish for a couple of them. OTOH, there are French words I recognize because they are cognates of Spanish.

What I really need are formal classes, but the only ones I've found are either in Paia (very far from me) or in the morning (and I'm not willing to give up my morning paddling, which was THE reason I moved here.) I'm going to see if I can find a private teacher, though I know from my experience studying Spanish that if my teacher is not a native French speaker I won't understand the actual spoken French.

Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Global Moderator
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 16906
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 12:41:05 PM »
Theres an app my friend used called italki which puts you in touch with native instructors for video chat lessons.
Maybe take a look?

Offline AQB24712

  • Not a Euphemism.
  • Global Moderatrix
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8081
  • Did you just call me..."Bacon girl"?
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2019, 01:09:42 PM »
Paging random poet to the thread.  Native Francophone random poet report to the thread, si'l vous plait.
"There's only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you've got to be kind."  Kurt Vonnegut
"You can bet your last money it's all gonna be a stone gas, honey."  Don Cornelius
"Wow! You spark up my entire thinking faculty."  A scammer/bot on a dating site

Offline brilligtove

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7679
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2019, 03:18:16 PM »
I think you meant  "silver plate" (please) and "mercy buckets" (thank you).
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline arthwollipot

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9418
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2019, 08:34:33 PM »
I think you meant  "silver plate" (please) and "mercy buckets" (thank you).

I quite like it when I'm at an event and they serve horse doovers.
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him.

Tarvek: There's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it.
Agatha: If that's what you think, then you're DOING IT WRONG!

Offline random poet

  • That's bullshit!
  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2127
  • On n'a jamais le temps, le temps nous a.
    • I have a LJ
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2019, 09:40:49 PM »
As a professional French man, I have nothing to add to the answers above. They are basically correct.

But I am available if you have any further questions.
Aujourd'hui j'ai vu un facteur joyeux.

Offline daniel1948

  • Happy Man in a Boat
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9542
  • I'd rather be paddling
Re: Is there a French speaker in the house?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2019, 11:20:51 PM »
As a professional French man, I have nothing to add to the answers above. They are basically correct.

But I am available if you have any further questions.

Thanks. I think I'm going to try italki. But if I have more questions I'll post them in this thread.
Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

personate-rain